Date: 2013-09-05 06:50 am (UTC)
superfangirl1: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superfangirl1
I was surprise that the joker actually almost shown emotions in this issue. Especially at the end. :(

Date: 2013-09-05 07:07 am (UTC)
beoweasel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beoweasel
The only thing I find myself liking from all these scans, is Jackanapes and Joker stealing girl scout cookies.

Date: 2013-09-06 01:36 am (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Joker)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
I gotta be honest, I couldn't stop laughing at that.

Date: 2013-09-05 07:31 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
So is there a reason that Jackanapes is as smart as he appears to be because I don't think gorilla's have the potential to assemble bombs....

Also, apparently true Joker backstory is rarely a good idea IMHO, and the absusive childhood is too close to other villain origins, couldn't you pretty much put Penguin or Riddler in the same flashbacks?

And that way of showing the Joker laughing seems... I dunno, it just doesn't work for me.

Date: 2013-09-05 08:30 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
Gorillas are really smart dude, they built their own city. Jackanapes in particular grows up to be a molecular biologist:

And I don't think Joker's childhood story can be true unless he literally grew up in a Tim Burton film.

Date: 2013-09-05 11:07 am (UTC)
yvonmukluk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yvonmukluk
As the man himself said,'If I have to have a past, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice!'

Date: 2013-09-05 03:58 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Good catch on the Morrison run reference!

Date: 2013-09-05 03:25 pm (UTC)
elf: We need a hero, son: A super-FREAKY hero. (Need a Hero)
From: [personal profile] elf
What I think is true from his "flashbacks:"

* At least once, his mother got him dressed in the morning.
* A 1st grade a girl punched him in the face.
* He had an Aunt named Eunice, or someone who was close enough to the family to be called an "aunt."
* At least once, he was told "that's all you're getting to eat."
* He played with clown dolls, and sometimes other kids didn't like him.

Everything else I attribute to Joker's unique perspective on life.

Also, I assume Jackanapes held things in place and carried parts around, and Joker's memory edited that to "assembled bombs."

Date: 2013-09-05 03:58 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Actually, as [personal profile] sadoeuphemist pointed out, this is actually a reference to Morrison's Batman run where a future Jackanapes is one of DamiBatman foes.

Date: 2013-09-05 06:35 pm (UTC)
skjam: Man in blue suit and fedora, wearing an eyeless mask emblazoned with the scales of justice (Default)
From: [personal profile] skjam
Gorilla Grodd exists in the New 52, so maybe Jackanapes is an orphaned exile from Gorilla City?

Date: 2013-09-06 03:15 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
i think like others have said here, this is ONE of Joker's origins,

Date: 2013-09-05 10:08 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
Its kind of surreal to see the Joker showing legitimate kindness to another creature (in his own way at least.) I mean I don't think he even ever treated Harley as well as he does Jackanapes. (Except maybe in The Batman animated series with Harley, where they had a musical frolicking montage of mayhem.)

Date: 2013-09-05 11:33 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
In BTAS, the Joker was frequently VILE to Harley, the fact she was too besotted to notice it shouldn't detract it's perhaps the most abusive relationship ever shown on TV.

Date: 2013-09-05 11:39 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
I wasn't referring to BTAS, I was referring to The Batman, the cartoon that came out after JLU. Harley only showed up for one episode of that series.

Montage in question:

I think in that one scene The Batman Joker treated Harley better than BTAS Joker treated Harley through that series entire iteration.
Edited Date: 2013-09-05 11:41 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-09-05 11:56 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Oh right, sorry, wrong animated series! :)

Yes, they toned that one down for "The Batman" and "Brave and the Bold".... though BTAS did give us "Beware the Creeper", where the Joker actually feels another new emotion; jealousy, because someone else is making googoo eyes at HIS Harley.

Date: 2013-09-05 12:24 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] timefire
Hmm... I have not followed B:TAS as much as I'd like, but that got me thinking: what does the Joker say about Poison Ivy and "his" Harley?

Date: 2013-09-05 12:46 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Given the network it was on, I doubt that the Joker would have been able to acknowledge that that relationship existed in that way.

Certinaly, he viewed Ivy as an interfering pain in the neck and a bad influence on Harley, so when Mr J comes to "collect" Harley to bring her back to the hideout (No one was doign the laundry and the hyenas hadn't been fed), he immediately tries to kill Ivy with Joker gas, only for her to reveal that she's immune to ALL poisons, including his.

Date: 2013-09-05 01:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] lego_joker
In a way, I think that Joker and Ivy actually deserve each other. While Harley frolics away to work at a puppy shelter or pair up with Steph Brown or something.

Date: 2013-09-05 09:44 pm (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
Its fine, The Batman was a generally terrible series all around, but in particular the name is the worst: Its so generic its hard to specify which series you are talking about.

And even so, its implied that in the episode I was referencing Joker was just using Harley, even if the worst thing he does is yell at her one time.

Date: 2013-09-05 10:06 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I rather liked The Batman, but mostly after they finally introduced Robin. There being a Batgirl before there's a Robin just didn't work for me.

Date: 2013-09-05 01:43 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
Three episodes, actually. She had another speaking role in the episode where the Joker infects a cloud of nanobots and one villain crowd scene.

Date: 2013-09-05 10:26 am (UTC)
rainspirit: (what the hell)
From: [personal profile] rainspirit
Oh dear god, it looks like James with boobs is shouting the first bit of dialogue at that terrified gorilla.

Date: 2013-09-05 03:22 pm (UTC)
lucean: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lucean
I'm kind of struggling with this as this is probably one of the weakest origin views I've ever read on the Joker. Opinion, naturally. It just lacks that weight in so many ways. Even the presented motivation seems just so mundane.

Although I will join a previous commenter on loving how Joker stole cookies from a girl scout, that is kind brilliant.

Date: 2013-09-05 03:30 pm (UTC)
zechs80: (Mayuri)
From: [personal profile] zechs80
Okay Joker's parent figure is Olive Oil from Popeye. That's just... wow.

Date: 2013-09-05 04:38 pm (UTC)
skemono: I read dead racists (Default)
From: [personal profile] skemono
Especially if you take into account her experiences with gorillas.

Date: 2013-09-05 06:15 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
Who is that oddly pinch-faced woman in the Joker scans? Not sure if it's Harley, as there seems something... off about hwo they did her face.

Date: 2013-09-05 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Joker seems to call her "Flame," but whether this is a real name, a nom de guerre, a description of their relationship, or something else entirely, or whether it's even actually directed at her, I have no idea.

Date: 2013-09-05 06:54 pm (UTC)
sir_mikael: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sir_mikael
So Joker's goal is hurting and killing people. Cus they deserve it and he's taking his abusive childhood out on the world. And he just happens to find it fun (not funny).

Date: 2013-09-05 07:49 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
If you're taking it at face value, sure. But then the Joker is generally an unreliable narrator - case in point, the finale of the Killing Joke, which just might be one of the best 'are you fucking kidding me' swerves after an attempt to make me feel sorry for a character ever. Just because he's justifying it like this, doesn't mean it's how it is.

Date: 2013-09-06 03:33 pm (UTC)
sir_mikael: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sir_mikael
I think it points towards the writer thinking that's how it is. Whether the parts with his childhood is true or not is irrelevant besides the fact that they're implied to have shaped his worldview. He might be lying about his worldview but I don't see what the point would be to have that in a comic? Unless he's trying to manipulate someone else not seen in these scans. So I'm left to believe the writer intends what is said on that to be true.

In the scans above, besides the fact that Joker is being wacky with a gorilla which is great, nothing about his actual worldview suggests being fond of jokes, comedy, laughing or the absurdity of the universe. His origin and outlook is no different from any random villain out to hurt the world.

It all boils down to this:
What's depicted is part of a now common interpretation of the Joker that I don't care for. A generic massmurderer first, a twisted unique comedian second (if that).

Date: 2013-09-05 10:29 pm (UTC)
silverzeo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverzeo
... you think the Joker would be upset because Batman didn't show up to stop him... we all know Joker can't really enjoy himself without having his old woman around to nag him....

Oh, and Harley should beat the snot out of him, for not only seeing another blonde bimbo behind her back, but leaving her with the babies Bud and Lou... The TAS shows that she does get a punch in once or twice.

Date: 2013-09-06 12:01 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray

It's just impossible to have one story with Joker and no mass murder, is it?

Date: 2013-09-06 10:10 pm (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
Oh come on. This one is atleast somehwat creative andn funny.

Date: 2013-09-06 10:34 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
True. But when every single story with Joker in the last 20 years or so has him commit mass murder, creativity and humor can't make up for the fact that the question "why hasn't anybody killed Joker yet?" and the feeling that Batman is ineffectual keep coming up.

It's not this story, in and of itself. It's the trend.
Edited Date: 2013-09-06 10:34 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-09-07 10:40 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Agreed, at least in the otherwise excerable "Last Laugh", Dick recalls that the Joker started out being wacky fun crime guy, twisted, but there being at least some grain of humour at the core, but the longer the Batman/Joker feud went on the darker and more lethal the Joker's schemes became, and he's never been sure why.

Joker Theory

Date: 2013-09-06 02:00 am (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Joker)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
This and some of the comments is reminding me of a personal essay I been meaning to write in regards to the Joker. I got lazy. Sue me. But been thinking about it since I took American Literature as part of Humanities credit at school. We were covering Edgar Allan Poe and read The Tell-Tale Heart and Black Cat in which a unique thought was brought up. What if the two stories were actually the same, yet told different? I couldn't help but think of the Joker in The Dark Knight and in The Animated Series in how he would tell his backstory, yet tell something different every time, but there was something consistent in each.

So my personal thoughts on Joker? Personally I prefer his origin in Killing Joke, him having been a family man struggling to make ends meet and having a very bad day, buut also think he had an abusive childhood and his father was a circus clown who clearly didn't like his job or his life. His wife and soon to be child was the only light in his life. Losing that, he lost it. Life is a cruel joke and it was on him. A good man suffers and loses. That is the big punchline. There are no happy endings. Gotham sucks happiness and life out of people, yet Batman protects this city, this entity. He's not broken by it like Joker was and Joker wants to end that. He wants to destroy this entity or rather, end the curse it puts on its people. Thus, Joker's laughs are actually cries and he is suicidal, seeking to break someone who seems unbreakable in the hopes that they end the cycle. Until then, Jack (I like to call Joker that and still believe that to be his real name), will continue to be this rogue agent of chaos. This entity's right hand as he continues bringing death and corruption to the people thus reminding them of that one, cruel joke that claimed him.

That's how I see it personally at least.


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