richardak: (Default)
[personal profile] richardak posting in [community profile] scans_daily
I started reading Birds of Prey in trades, so, needless to say, I never had the chance to read the bulk of the pre-Simone run of the series, until quite recently, when I managed to acquire the complete run of the series.  When I saw the following two pages, I knew I had to post them.  There's no interesting subtext, no subtle allusions or foreshadowing, or anything like that.  Just plain old badassery.  Quick summary of the plot: a team of federal marshals were transporting a group of supervillains from the Slab, the special prison in the DCU for holding supervillains, to STAR Labs, when the train, along with Black Canary and Catwoman, gets sucked through a boom tube to Apokolips, and soon comes under attack by Darkseid's military.  Canary and Catwoman leave to try to steal a mother box to get back to earth while the marshals and the supervillains try to hold off the parademons.  And here we go:


Date: 2014-04-25 04:23 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] michaelhealy
Tonight the part of US Marshal will be played by Axe Cop.

Date: 2014-04-25 11:18 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
You know if that were Axe Cop the bad guys had better just give up right now, because Axe Cop will just go straight to Apokalyips on a magic hamburger unicorn or something and turn Darkseid into a jack in the box.

Date: 2014-04-25 05:18 am (UTC)
doctor_spanky: (Default)
From: [personal profile] doctor_spanky
Is Barbara walking?? Man, her and Professor Xavier. It's like make up your minds. (Also is it terrible that I think Barbara is much more interesting as Oracle than as Batgirl [partly because I like Cass so much]?)

And I like seeing Greg Land stuff from the 90s. It reminds me of what a good artist he was before he started tracing / stealing

Date: 2014-04-25 11:22 am (UTC)
randyripoff: (Barry Ween)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
And she's not wearing a helmet because...?

Date: 2014-04-25 11:40 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Because as an audience we're meant to care more about her than her faceless helmeted comrades? I assume that's usually the reason for main-ish (or prominent supporting) character failing to wear appropriate head protection. And why Spider-man's mask is ridiculously expressive sometimes.

Date: 2014-04-25 11:47 am (UTC)
randyripoff: (splash brannigan)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
Oh I understand that. It just would have made more sense to see her putting on her helmet while shes delivering her lines. Just one of those little things that bugs me.

Date: 2014-04-25 02:42 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
how is Barbara as Batgirl a Knock off? Barbara was the fist Batgirl (not Bat-Girl).....

that said, i loved her much more as Oracle. but i would never call Barbara/batgirl a knock off....

Date: 2014-04-25 03:04 pm (UTC)
junipepper: (Default)
From: [personal profile] junipepper
I wouldn't call Cass a knock-off either; she's a legitimate successor.

However, Barbara!Batgirl actually originated on the 60's TV show, so I guess in that sense she could be considered a knock-off (maybe?).

Date: 2014-04-25 03:13 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
could we not call her a knock off? because she is not (and i did not call any character a knock off).


and i would say the comic character was inspired by the tv character, however, if i recall correctly they both came out at the same time. and one in anticipation of hte other.

Date: 2014-04-25 05:08 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
i hope you are joking, because she is not, (nor are her legacies) far from it she is based off of batman but not a knock off

can we PLEASE stop calling Batgirl(s) knock offs?

Date: 2014-04-25 06:58 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
-And I like seeing Greg Land stuff from the 90s. It reminds me of what a good artist he was before he started tracing / stealing-

I know, night and day isn't it?

-(Also is it terrible that I think Barbara is much more interesting as Oracle than as Batgirl [partly because I like Cass so much]?)-

I feel the same way, Oracle was a much more unusual, complex character.

Date: 2014-04-25 07:36 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Also is it terrible that I think Barbara is much more interesting as Oracle than as Batgirl

Not even remotely...

Date: 2014-04-25 11:25 am (UTC)
randyripoff: (stardust)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
As Oracle she was a first rate character, filling a niche in the DCU that made tons of sense and was extremely effective for lots of reasons, plus she also stood out as a reminder that physical disability is not a limitation.

As Batgirl, she's a third-rate superhero in tights in a city full of superheroes in tights. Someone else (Stephanie, Cass) could fill that role easily. There's nothing particularly special about her now.

Date: 2014-04-25 01:19 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I'd argue that Cass especially brought a lot more character to the Batgirl role than Barbara ever did. I like Steph's run as Batgirl more in terms of reading comics, but it's difficult to deny that Cass bought the name new relevance again, whereas I think Steph makes more sense as Spoiler (or at least currently does, lacking her previous history).

Gail Simone recently said during one of the recent conventions that she sees Barbara as the smartest of the Bats, and.. I just don't see it. The current Barbara is a miserable, incompetent, blathering tool of a character who doesn't have one twentieth of the old version's smarts. Oracle, on the other hand - before Simone arguably disastrously derailed her with that Death of Oracle arc (even though Oracle had never really played that support network role super-heavily since the demolition of the clocktower, which saw the Birds leave Gotham, thus rendering Simone's point moot) - entirely unique, arguably, in the DCU. A disabled character who was still physically capable in ways that other characters like her weren't, thus making her inspirational? A different role, an application of intelligence rather than hitting stuff? Oracle was awesome. Batgirl right now is just a hot mess, whose miserable book is overshadowed by Batwoman, which could be similarly angsty but is being handled far better, even with the changeover in creators. I just think Simone is far too attached to the character, doesn't really have any idea of how to write PTSD, and is taking the mandate of 'no happiness EVER' from DC's editorial way too seriously.

Date: 2014-04-25 02:54 pm (UTC)
onceaskrull: (Batman: Robin to the rescue)
From: [personal profile] onceaskrull
"Gail Simone recently said during one of the recent conventions that she sees Barbara as the smartest of the Bats, and.. I just don't see it."

Oh yeah, it had slipped my mind until you said that; I remember her saying just that during a WonderCon panel this past weekend. She also gave what I believe to be the worst answer to objection to Benes' art (which was raised in a question) that I've heard; I think even someone who likes his art would've raised an eyebrow at it. Anyway, have definitely not been impressed with Simone's writing of BG in the new 52.

Anyway, I agree. Oracle WAS awesome, and I miss her dearly.

Date: 2014-04-25 03:16 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I suppose she might have to trot out the company line when it comes to Benes' art, much like I imagine anyone who gets lumbered with Land at Marvel would have to walk the company line and be complimentary there.

What was the objection and her answer, out of curiosity?

Date: 2014-04-25 03:01 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
as some one who has gone through PTSD i beg to differ, she got that pretty well.

i would argue that Cass and Stephanie brought different, yet equally important things to the role of batgirl.

Cass brought a new sense of purpose to the role of batgirl. A character that was loyal to an ideal not just a person. and a person who was not only one of the greatest fighters in the world, but who's "dark past" doesn't hinder her. There was a sort of innocence Cass had (which is not to be mistaken for naivete) she tended to believe the best in people. And in the hands of any other writer, the Death Wish angle would have felt contrived. but it made sense for her.

Stephanie on the other hand brought something the other bats didn't. a sense of hope. She made the Bat symbol be more than a symbol of fear to the criminals. but a sign of hope. I don't think that was something she could do as Spoiler. Could she still be the same as Spoiler as she was as Batgirl? sure. But she made the Bat stand for Hope. Something it hadn't stood for in a while. especially conscidering the RIP. Also what i loved about her was that BQM turned her from the screw up of the Batfamily, to the one who kept on standing up even if she screwed up.

Date: 2014-04-25 03:32 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
In that case, I mostly concede my point about PTSD. I just don't think it's an approach that has worked well for the character and feel it's actively contributed to a take on Barbara who has seemed dangerously irresponsible and incompetent at times, to me. But that's just IMO, of course, and I'm not suggesting that people with PTSD shouldn't move forward or try to overcome it.

I do agree about Steph and Cass, though. Again, I feel that both of them really contributed more to the role than Barbara is currently, which feels more rooted in nostalgia than anything else. It's a shame, since I like Barbara in other material, just not the current book.

Date: 2014-04-25 03:08 pm (UTC)
junipepper: (Default)
From: [personal profile] junipepper
Preach, brother!

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