NS: Rebirth announcement

[lucean]

DC published an announcement concerning the coming Rebirth event with Geoff Johns explaining their mission and thought-process on it. There also hints with what they will try to re-establish with it and since I thought it was a worth a watch, I also decided to share it here for those who haven't seen it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN_r_-OB42M

Now, one thing I must point out that I found hilarious in it. Not only is the person presenting the one who removed the biggest legacy character in DCU history by completely eradicating Wally West as Flash, but in addition when discussing GL: Rebirth Johns makes it clear how important it was for him to have Kyle Rayner remain a core character in Green Lantern mythology yet with Flash: Rebirth Wally West basically again gets ignored in order to focus how important Barry Allen is to everything and everyone.

Comments

[informationgeek]

Interesting video and hearing news from elsewhere.

Action and Detective Comics are going back to their original numbers (Action #1000, here we come!). Birds of Prey being hinted at coming. Johns and Fabok leaving Justice League on #50 (Shazam ongoing please). More $2.99 books. Most titles reverting back to #1. Bleeding Cool reporting that Sam Humphries is coming over to DC exclusively. Tom King, Clay Mann & John Timms are all now DC guys.

The future is intriguing and I'm eager to find out more in the future. Also, new creative team on Wonder Woman would be appreciated.

[lucean]

I was actually thinking about the WW creative team when they touched on her in the video as the Finchs run has been really bizarre for me.

I know that Azzarello run was divisive, even if I liked it, but it was pretty well received critically and the sales were decent, so there a buzz for the book when left. And even beyond that, you could see that he was attempting to give Diana a clear place within the DCU as the Goddess of War and the Ambassador of Peace. Now, it is understandable that some might not like it and try to adjust it, which is fine, but the Finchs haven't really even tried to set up something new, instead they seem to be just focused on tearing down what Azzarello established without really building anything back up.

A little sidetrack, sorry about that, but the WW direction is just baffling to me.

[informationgeek]

I don't hate their run like everyone else does, but I'm incredibly "meh" in regards to what the Finches have been doing. It's just not that engaging for me to read in comparison to Batman and Superman (the character's been in a weird place with losing his powers, but he's been enjoyable to read).

So the question is... who should write Wonder Woman? Scott Snyder mentioned he was interested in writing her (I would be down for that personally), Tom King could be good, and Genevieve Valentine is currently doing nothing so she could be a good choice after her work on Catwoman.

[nyadnar17]

Agree 100%. Pick a direction, any direction and stick with it. Wonder Woman is the most iconic character that 99% of people can't describe because she is all over the place in every single incarnation.

Maybe the movie will fix this? Maybe movie WW will just be the new WW? Anything seems better than this failing around crap.

[lucean]

I agree on the movie, or movies with BvS, and I hope they give the fixed point for the character.

As I mentioned above, what stymies me so much with the Finches approachs is that Azzarello gave probably the clearest direction and concept for Diana that we've had in ages and I assume that he did with the blessing of the editorial. Yet Finches just have been ripping it apart without even offering a new clear direction.

[lordultimus]

According to solicitations, Johns is still on JL for #51, though Fabok isn't.

[informationgeek]

It's been addressed:

"DC's recent solicitations list Johns as the book's writer for #51, but DC Comics tells CBR News that information will soon be updated with the new writer's name."

[zabilac]

What, you mean Barry Allen isn't the most important person in the DC Univerise?! Blasphemy!

[lucean]

Weirdest part was that legitimately seemed to be one of the points of the announcement as they made a point about how Flash has been at the forefront of change in DCU, but basically ignored that someone else than Barry was that important character for a large part of the creative shift.

[jaybee3]

What's even stranger is that was WALLY who was the Flash for the childhood's of many of the creators and artists now at the forefront of DC. He literally was the only Flash for an entire generation (or two) while St. Barry wad dead. And he was the Flash for the JL Animated show which the current publishing regime has mined for quite a bit in characterization, character looks (at least in the old DCU) and character pushes. Yet now its like he (or that version of Wally at least) never existed.

The worst part is that I have heard Didio say it was a mistake by DC to get rid of (as if they never existed) characters like Hal Jordan or Kara Zor-El and one of the things he's proudest of is bringing those characters back. Yet Wally....

[lucean]

For me, the thing that drives me nuts with Wally unlike with any other character isn't even his removal. They decide to bring in a new Flash, okay, it would be even be great if it wasn't the previous one, but whatever. Where it took a twist to the arcane is that while they made it clear how important the legacies of Kara, Hal and Barry was to the degree they again did it during Convergence, they utterly annihilated the legacy of Wally West. They just destroyed it. They couldn't even give him a hero's send-off because nothing could overshadow the Great Barry Allen as the Flash almost no asked for.

That what makes the video I linked so arcane to watch as Johns drones on how important legacies are to him after spearheading the creative effort to remove the legacy of one of DCU's primary characters of 20 years from DCU. It's just something I cannot wrap my mind around and which no actual website seems interested to push him on, even if I understand their hesitation on the subject.

[silverhammerman]

Not enthused about the idea that DC is focusing on long time readers, even as a relatively dedicated reader myself. It feels like a pretty defeatist attitude, honestly.

[lucean]

I can understand the focus on longtime readers as you want to create a solid base similarly to what Marvel has succeeded in doing with some of their titles. What I find alarming is that the current editorial has strongly signaled that to me that focus means the classic versions of the characters while going out of their way to ignore later popular versions of the character. See King Aquaman from the 90s, which Johns basically mocked during his Aquaman run.

[silverhammerman]

Longtime readers may be stable, but they're also an inevitably shrinking segment of the market. Playing to them is unambitious, and more importantly, shortsighted. It sends the message that DC is more concerned with short term stability than making sure that they actually have readers in 10 years time.

I'm agreed on the issue of DC not really integrating newer and more wildly known versions of the characters in favor of sticking to the "classic" versions. Marvel's MCU synergy gets a lot of flack, but it's good business sense to have the characters in the comics at least somewhat resemble the versions found in the latest movie or TV show.

[owlbrigade1]

Defeatist sums it up in the sense they failed to draw in many new readers and have faced withering unrelenting criticism from a lot of their core base of the Nu52 and are finally recognizing that. The problem is they are too late in declaring in defeat on the Nu52 and the long term readers have got into a habit of criticizing DC; it'll take far more than this to stop them. I think they are completely lost and just treading water now until they accidentally do something right. When that happens they will pile on that bandwagon. I think it will require some relatively senior staff moving on though.

[bruinsfan]

I know I won't be picking up a DC Comic that Neil Gaiman wasn't involved in until Didio is gone, and probably Lee as well.

[owlbrigade1]

Sadly that probably won't happen anytime soon though. Someone on another site pointed out that there probably is not exactly a huge line of people wanting his job. It would be several years of thankless hard work, just trying to plot a new path and getting a wary group of fans onside, and probably not a lot to show for it for the first five years; by which time his replacement would probably be burned out and ready to move on themselves and leave the next guy to them to take the credit. Warners probably have not got a lot of people banging on their door to take over and give them any incentive to replace him.

I'll probably get an idea of how the reboot goes via SD, and take it from there. DC just killed the one comic of theirs that I actually liked though, so it won't so much be me boycotting them as them abandoning my money.

[silverhammerman]

Now there's a depressing angle which I hadn't thought of. Boy does it say bad things about the comics industry that we're keeping incompetents in charge for sheer lack of a better option. At this point I'd honestly be down to see DC's parent company just bring in some suit with zero background in comics, because DC desperately needs someone who actually understands the concept of running a business for profit.

[mrstatham]

Lee's involvement in DC Comics at such a high level is baffling, to me; while I LOVE some of the old Wildstorm books, especially those by Ellis, Moore's Wildcats run and others, Lee's handling of the company was completely and utterly incompetent, especially in the later years; how that justified him gaining such a position in DC, I do not know.

[thatnickguy]

It doesn't matter. I've lost all faith in DC. Even before New 52, I was getting tired of them darkening their universe and making it edgier. Then New 52 happened, which was a confusing, edgy mess that reminded me less of the DC Comics I grew up on and more of early-90s Image Comics.

Do they really think making some of their titles bi-weekly will work out? They have a hard enough time holding onto creative teams on monthly books. And I KNEW once Action Comics and Detective comics grew closer to #1000, they'd reset the numbering.

This all sounds like a fresh coat of paint on the same overarching problems, coupled with fancy PR talk. DC's editorial is still a mess.

I hate sounding this bitter, but I grew up on DC Comics. Some of my favourite superheroes, including Superman and Flash, are there. But I haven't been able to enjoy those characters in a long, long time. I enjoy the Flash show, but I haven't been able to enjoy new stories about Superman in any medium in years. With one exception: The Adventures of Superman comic, but that was cancelled.

[bradygirl_12]

Yay! 1,000 for Action and Detective Comics! Always hated the new numbering system. You've got a legacy, DC. Be proud of it!

Despite the Barry hate out there, I like seeing him again, but then, I grew up with the originals as the Flash, GL, Batgirl, Supergirl, etc. I wasn't happy when they were removed from those roles (and Barry and Linda were killed) and replacements brought in, but I wouldn't bash Wally West for replacing Barry. *shrugs*

[nyadnar17]

I ordinary wouldn't hate Barry either. Hell I loved him or at least the idea of him almost as much as Wally West did! But its hard not being bitter when a character not only replaces the person you grew up with, but they completely erase them from history.

[bradygirl_12]

I guess Supergirl fans ought to be very bitter, then. Linda Danvers is erased from history after saving everyone in COIE. We've got Kara but she isn't the same. Looks like Wally is going to get the same treatment. Enjoy the back issues!

It all goes in cycles. What DC has done recently is how many fans felt when COIE wiped out the DC multiverse we knew and loved.

[lucean]

But the comparison doesn't hold up at all.

First of all, nobody forgot about Barry Allen and his legacy was a huge part of the Flash story, unlike with Wally. Second, Linda Danvers was a creation of the 90s unless you're talking about Kara's alter ego in the Silver Age. At which point I am somewhat loss how getting Kara to be Supergirl again is the same as Wally West's legacy utterly removed from DCU? Is this also arguing that Superman fans should be angry since Clark is different from the character he was in the Silver Age? Third, did you notice the grandiose exits both Supergirl and Barry got? As opposed to the shrugging writing off of Wally?

Fourth, and most importantly, what exactly is the response here? If you argue that Supergirl fans should be pissed off, despite the fact the current reigning version of Supergirl is the same character than in the Silver Age, why exactly shouldn't Wally fans then be furious about what happened?

[bradygirl_12]

Yes, I'm talking about the Silver and Bronze Age Supergirl, who is never returning to DC because, I believe, PAD owns her copyright? Or some legalese.

She had a distinct history which was erased. Yes, we do have a new Supergirl, Kara Kent, Kara Danvers, etc. Not Linda Danvers. It might not be a big distinction but it makes a difference to me and other fans.

Wally fans can be angry all they like. I'm just turned off by the references to 'Saint Barry' and the like I've been reading on this comm and elsewhere. So TPTB made Barry the catalyst for the Nu52. It's not the character's fault.

[lucean]

You assume that the anger isn't towards TPTB? And the name doesn't come from the fact how they decided to write Barry once he came back?

As for the first part, I am really confused. PAD Supergirl wasn't the Silver Age Supergirl, Kara is the Silver Age Supergirl. PAD Supergirl was the Matrix Supergirl. And which characters do you enjoy then as none of them are similar to their Silver Age compatriots outside their names and backgrounds. For example, Diana, Clark and Bruce are all vastly different from their Silver Age versions.

[bradygirl_12]

I do prefer pre-COIE versions of the characters. What can I say? I'm a fan of the classics! :)

I don't dislike current versions though I despise what was done to the Amazons. I just don't have the same emotional investment as I used to, that's all (most of the time).

Some of the anger may be directed at TPTB, but fans do tend to get very attached to characters. Emotions run high, so, yes, some of the anger is probably directed toward Barry. It's as silly as denigrating Barbara for not being Steph or Cass, which I've seen, too.

[lucean]

I have no issues with someone liking the old versions of the characters, what I am arguing is that your comparison is a false equivalency.

When Cass was Batgirl, Babs still had a legacy as Batgirl, that wasn't wiped out. When Linda Danvers was Supergirl, Kara still had a legacy, she still had that great moment where she sacrificed herself. When Wally was Flash, Barry Allen still had a legacy, he still had a presence and an impact on the world.

Yet now, the legacies of Cass, Linda and Wally have wiped away to go back to those classical characters, so the situation is very different from what happened with the classical versions.