[identity profile] innerbrat.insanejournal.com posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Woo! First post to the new community. I did come here to post some scans of Golden Age Black Canary, but I saw [insanejournal.com profile] uadlika asked for some scans from Snow Birds Don't Fly, so of course I had to.

Oliver Queen is having a bad day. He references something about Dinah talling him she's "not going to be home when [he calls] anymore..." which I guess means she's [gasp] decided to have a life of her own or something. So he's moping, then he gets set upon by wannabe muggers. Which should be nothing for the Green Arrow, except this happens:

He struggles off to a hospital, where he decides this is the kind of thing you call your best friend about:

There follows four pages of the horrors of withdrawal, the squalor of addiction-related poverty and how racism drives people of colour to drugs. Then:

There follows: PLOT. Ollie is a hothead, Hal doesn't tell him to shut up. They both end up accidentally taking junk, and Roy rescues them.

Dinah doesn't actually appear until the next issue. The issue is 25 pages long, so I'm hoping 8 pages of it is OK; I didn't want to leave any of this out:

After Ollie shows off his coping skills, he goes a-beating up bad guys, leaving his apartment free for one of Roy's friends to break in, OD and die. Hal, meanwhile, puts two and two together regarding what Roy was talking about and goes looking for him.

Time -and plot - passes. The OD'd friend of Roy's has a funeral.

I'll be back later in the week with some scans of Dinah's mother, who is just as awesome and has just as bad taste in men.
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Date: 2009-07-12 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fungo_squiggly.insanejournal.com
You've got to love Ollie's reaction to having a crossbow pointed at him.

"Ha, you're threatening me with a weapon that last saw common use in the middle ages? What are you going to do, shoot me with a wooden projectile propelled by some sort of string, as opposed to gunpowder? That's the lamest thing I ever-- MY GOD! He's shot me somehow! Who knew that such a thing was possible?"

Date: 2009-07-12 10:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] besamim.insanejournal.com
I'd heard a lot about this story (and nearly every comic geek has seen the "My ward is a JUNKIE!" cover at some point) but this is the first time I've read any of it. Thanks!

And it wasn't as preachy or hokey as I'd imagined it would be, given the "very special" theme. Denny O'Neil being on board certainly helped; he was one of the better Bronze Age writers.

Date: 2009-07-12 11:01 pm (UTC)
kingrockwell: he's a sexy (Ollie Queen)
From: [personal profile] kingrockwell
That last panel has always bugged me. Should Ollie be proud that Roy can take care of himself, or sullen because he did such a poor job taking care of Roy? My gut says the latter, O'Neil and Adams disagree.

Date: 2009-07-12 11:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kagome654.insanejournal.com
Oh, Ollie...you lovable scamp.


Date: 2009-07-12 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jupiterrhode.insanejournal.com
Oh my god, the dialog! No one ever talked like that. Also, Ollie really is a waste of space, isn't he?

Date: 2009-07-12 11:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] besamim.insanejournal.com
Oh, and all this is despite my intense dislike of Ollie.
From: [identity profile] scottyquick.insanejournal.com
Wow, this Ollie is the biggest douchebag in the history of DC comics. At least Bruce or Clark never punched Cass or Kara for being addicted to drugs. Like holy shit O'Neil.

I love Dinah and Roy, though. Something that disappointed me about BoP is that we never got to see Dinah and Roy's relationship.

I need to get a Roy icon and an Ollie icon.

My favorite thing is the way Ollie talks on the phone.
kingrockwell: he's a sexy (Ollie Queen)
From: [personal profile] kingrockwell
Giant, economy-sized telephone stylings!

Date: 2009-07-13 12:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlbarnett.insanejournal.com
Ollie was wrong to hit him. When he did. But after listening to the self-pitying drivel and justifications Roy comes up with I find myself wishing someone should smack him then.

From what I've seen of O'Neill's work I don't think I'd like much of it. To much passing the buck, blaming the people who are trying to help for not helping in the right way. THey admit they aren't perfect but expect others to be.

Date: 2009-07-13 12:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thebigapricot.insanejournal.com
Ollie Queen, so self-absorbed and egotistical that he can find a way to make himself feel good about helping to make his teenage ward become a drug addict and then kicking him out so he'd have to quit cold turkey. Yeah!

At least Roy realizes and regularly acknowledges how important Dinah was to him during this time. (I've never been able to see that Hal did much other than dropping him off at Dinah's.)

Oh, Ollie. Who the hell let you near teenagers?

Date: 2009-07-13 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mari_redstar.insanejournal.com
It took me several minutes of consideration before I worked out that "Do the big funnies at him" probably meant "make fun of him". Without context I never would've gotten it.

I always forget just how very obvious Roy is here. "Gee, Green Arrow, what could make an upstanding young man turn to drugs? Well, I dunno, maybe if this upstanding young man was somebody's sidekick, say, and their mentor kept ditching him to go hang out with his boyfriend, for instance, maybe they'd turn to heroin to kill the loneliness and daddy issues. Hypothetically. By the way, our neighborhood's been hit with grafitti taggers again- somebody painted I'm on drugs, for God's sake, what the hell do I have to do to make you remember I exist?! right across our front door."

...At least it appears to have occurred to Ollie to feel a little weird about, y'know, having had no idea where the teenager he's responsible for even is. For a month. Without having done anything about it. (Around how old is Roy here, anyway, seventeenish? I would say eighteen, since he heads off on his own at the end with no objection from anyone, but ha, like Ollie would care, and Dinah didn't know his real name, did she, so she probably wouldn't know his age either.)

Date: 2009-07-13 12:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rab62.insanejournal.com
Despite leaden one-note characterization and grating, clumsy dialog and an utterly false contrived ending, this is one of the most overpraised stories in comics history. Because the subject matter was "significant" and "relevant" and "hey look, comic books aren't for kiddies anymore!" you weren't supposed to notice how heavy-handed it was. (And to be fair, the wonderful art also disguises many sins in the writing.)

Several issues of this run were actually very good, but this was not one of them.

Date: 2009-07-13 12:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] uadlika.insanejournal.com
Oh Ollie, you ass.

Thank you for posting this! Sadly I can no longer vainly believe that everyone was misinterpreting Ollie's douchery here.
From: [identity profile] thebat_man.insanejournal.com
Ollie's flawed. He makes mistakes. I like that, because perfect characters are boring.
From: [identity profile] scottyquick.insanejournal.com
Beating up and kicking out your son for being addicted to heroin because you abandoned him isn't flawed, it's evil.
From: [identity profile] uadlika.insanejournal.com
Grell's GA had his own moments of dickery, but never quite like this. I haven't read that much bronze/silver age GA to know for certain, but if Grell's GA is an OC then I thank him dearly for creating one of my favorite characters.

Date: 2009-07-13 01:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlroberson.insanejournal.com
I have ALWAYS found that bizarre. Ollie of all people should understand not just that, but why that guy in CRECY says, again and again, "I hate fucking crossbows." Ollie would know that he might as well have just had a gun pointed at him.

In retrospect, this Ollie doesn't age well. He's basically an arrogant idiot who never thinks things through. But then the whole point of this particular storyline is that Ollie is irresponsible and not as observant as he thinks he is. And if you lead it into the Zen retreat stuff at the end, really, doesn't that become the arc of the series--the humbling of Ollie? Hal only changes in that his view starts to include the local. If you go back and look, it turns out that HAL is the reasonable one who's willing to listen, and Ollie the one who's set in his ways and kind of selfish. (but consider which of them was rich till recently and a whole new level of Ollie hoves into view)

And frankly, the "orange, blue, brown skins" thing at the start of the series might itself be questionable. "What did I do? I saved EVERYONE'S skins on the PLANET a buncha times, that's all." Why not ask this of Superman?
From: [identity profile] jlroberson.insanejournal.com
And it happens, and they're showing that. And Ollie's limitations. Ollie isn't as tolerant, reasonable, hip or sensitive as he's been pretending. Consider he's spent the whole story preaching to Hal till now. The POINT is that Ollie's a hypocrite with feet of clay.

Which was gutsy of O'Neill.
From: [identity profile] jlroberson.insanejournal.com
And what are the laws regarding wards? Because THAT'S WHAT ROY IS. He is to Ollie what Robin was to Bruce, precisely.

I mean, neglecting him and running around the country, after, ahem, losing his fortune without any apparent new source of income. That's the kinda thing that gets Family Services on your ass, fast.

Date: 2009-07-13 01:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freezer818.insanejournal.com
Like many other "classic" and "groundbreaking" stories, this one is well-remember because it broke new ground, not because of it's own merits. (Frankly, this does not age well.)

IIRC, Harry's LSD flashback in Amazing Spider-Man was a much better VSE on drugs than this.
From: [identity profile] scottyquick.insanejournal.com
Which is fine for O'Neil, but it takes away all sympathy and positive feelings I had towards Ollie. He's a superhero, he should be above that.
From: [identity profile] jlroberson.insanejournal.com
You should go on to read the subsequent issues where he has to deal with the big flaws he now knows he has.

In the words of Hunter Zolomon, "it makes him better."

Personally, I like it in the grand scheme of things. Because few superheroes get to have this kind of arc that really tests them as characters. Ollie was allowed to because at the time he was a B-lister. (You couldn't do this, at least not then, with Batman) It gives him depth when you realize he overcame this particular dickishness, which has always remained in canon.

Date: 2009-07-13 01:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlroberson.insanejournal.com
Like the cat poster, Ollie. Also the way you totally blow what you think is Roy's cover! If he was doing what you think he was, he sure as fuck can't do it now, as there are now two junkies(and junkies are those kind of people you get info out of because it's easy to make 'em talk) who know exactly what "Speedy" looks like and what his name is. And also! As they know who Roy Harper is, it wouldn't take a genius to put two and two together about Ollie, a formerly rich and famous man whose ward would be known.

And I hate to get on Adams, but someone MUST be high with that sense of perspective. Check the ceiling they go through, their height, and the junkies' height.

And you forgot to mention, about the junkies' dosing GL and GA: they do it by making them SNORT it, which makes pretty much everything afterward ridiculous; they'd have to go to the hospital. Remember Uma Thurman in PULP FICTION? Or, in real life, Pete Townshend once snorted what he thought was coke in a club around 1979-80(his post-Moon binge) and nearly died, if not for a very diligent team of medics in the ambulance. He turned blue, the whole deal. GL in that scene manages to make the ring work by willpower. They wouldn't have even gotten him conscious. It's not will, it's biochemistry.
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