laughing_tree: (Default)
[personal profile] laughing_tree posting in [community profile] scans_daily

'Nothing will be the same after this. That sounds like me in Marvel crossover mode. But really, nothing will be the same. It's kind of like, "Who can possibly survive this one?"' -- Kieron Gillen

Date: 2016-08-07 04:25 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
You know, after the last time Vader killed someone who said killing them would make them immortal ended with the guy vanishing on him after he struck the killing blow, this time must be really satisfying for Vader.

"Well, she didn't disappear on me.... calling this one a win."
From: [personal profile] chortles81
Or is that Legends now?

Confession: I have a hard time suspending disbelief at Tulon Voidgazer declaring her disregard for Vader's superstition versus her understanding of science when their faceoff is specifically because of Vader's empirical (no pun intended) and repeatedly provable abilities.
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Are there any non-Force using psionics in the SW-verse?

Perhaps a species which just IS telekinetic, or telpathic? So they'd have most of the same apparent skills as a Jedi/Sith, bit not need of the Force mythos?
From: [personal profile] norj
There are a lot of telepathic and empathic races in the GFFA but I don't think there are any telekinetics.
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I have a hard time believing ANYONE circa Episode IV would consider the Force/the Jedi/etc 'superstitious' or 'sorcerous' as one guy in IV calls it, I think. It's real. Vader displays use of it. The Jedi existed in a pretty powerful state less than twenty-five years ago. This is not myth or legend.
From: [personal profile] chortles81
That, and it's a big enough galaxy for a POV character in the Battlefront: Twilight Company canon novel to not know what Vader looks like, much less believe in the Force. Heck, his reaction to Vader tanking blaster fire during the Echo Base assault was to keep pouring it on in hopes of burning out Vader's 'personal shield'...
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Yeah, but in 25 years, its very easy for stuff to fall into the category of 'myths and legends'. Remember: there weren't actually that many Jedi, in the grand scheme of things. Billions of sentient beings and the Jedi were, iirc, only number in the thousands (wookiepedia guestimates around 10,000 including masters, knights and padawans). As they say themselves during the prequel trilogy, they're a police force, not an army. They were few in number; not unlike Texas Rangers or perhaps FBI agents...but policing an entire galaxy of worlds, not just a country.

I find very easy to believe that they would quickly slide into the category of the Templar Knights, with the suspicion that the Force was just a lot of hooey...especially when the Galactic Empire made it very dangerous to publicly say otherwise.

Date: 2016-08-07 08:50 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] silicondream
"But...shit, is she maybe more powerful than I can possibly imagine now?"

"...nope, nope, she's just dead. Close one."

Date: 2016-08-07 10:22 am (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
The whole thing with science-types being against superstition is that superstition doesn't exist. It doesn't work. The Force quite obviously exists and works, so a scientist should be very interested in analysing it.

Date: 2016-08-07 01:35 pm (UTC)
dr_archeville: Doctor Arkeville (Default)
From: [personal profile] dr_archeville
Especially if midi-chlorians are still a thing.

Date: 2016-08-07 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
To be fair, depending on situation you might not know that. And of course, even if you accept the abilities you don't neccessarily have to explain the reasons for them.
From: [personal profile] 7dialsmystery
...but not the religious aspects of using the force. Jedi vs Sith has always felt like a religious war between space wizards. But there are other cultures ( supposedly ) in this universe that have 'the force' and don't have the same emotional hang ups as Jedi and Sith. Example: Ewoks appear to have some kind of version of "the force" going by the cartoon and those Ewok movies and yet neither live or act like Jedi or Sith.
cainofdreaming: b/w (Default)
From: [personal profile] cainofdreaming
In the EU there are lots of Force sensitive species who do not adhere to Jedi/Sith teachings. Dathomiri witches, the Voss, Rakata, Kwa, H'drachi, etc all had their own traditions. Some were similar to either Jedi or Sith, some totally different.
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
And the night sisters.
From: [personal profile] 7dialsmystery
...which the scientists probably except as real but not the Sith/Red Lantern "rage is power" religious philosophy. Unless all the other Force users are now ret-conned out of existence.
Edited Date: 2016-08-09 12:03 am (UTC)

Date: 2016-08-08 01:14 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
It's even pretty clear that they require a lot of study to master the force.

In the EU, Krayt spends a lot of time researching techniques. Plagueis is totally a scientist in mentality. Etc..

Date: 2016-08-08 01:59 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
I actually like the idea of fantasy rivalry between technocratic and mystical powers (cf. the Mæster Conspiracy in A Song of Ice and Fire), but it has to make sense for both scientists' and mystics' sensibilities.

I like how Marvel does it: Tony Stark doesn't treat magic as a dismissible superstition because duh, but he grudgingly and somewhat resentfully stays away from it, because he knows that his kind of intellect would get him nowhere, he'd be reduced from genius to dilettante; magic resists analysis, his usual approach is useless there. So he's content with leaving the magic part of superheroing to Dr Strange, Brother Voodoo and friends. Meanwhile Dr. Doom is both a scientist and a wizard, and it makes sense because of his personality; he got intimate with its fickleness so that he could subdue it, more or less like one would tame a wild horse.

Date: 2016-08-07 11:00 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I would have liked Tulon a lot more if she had NOT so blatantly monologued herself out of her potential win by telling Vader exactly what she'd done to the Rancor, and THEN explained the last part of the plan presumbly in time for Vader to use it to suit his own ends.

In a series of smart, competent villains, old school like her just sticks out like a sore thumb.

Date: 2016-08-07 01:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
These scans kinda hit on the nose what I find so damn annoying about 'The Force' in Star Wars.

It's been around for thousands of years in a society that has mastered space travel and other countless technologies, when it's still somehow regarded as 'magic' or 'superstition' and thus dismissed.

WTF? That's like a modern person calling the weather 'magic'. Even if one doesn't know the exact principles of how it occurs, no one regards weather as magic.

The Force allows one to throw lightning, move objects, influence minds and limited precognition in combat. Four freakin' things can't be that hard to remember.

And twice as annoying, since everyone seems to regard 'The Force' as magic, they don't even bother to try to develop defenses against it. They just faceplant into it

I'd say "massive amounts of propaganda"

Date: 2016-08-07 02:04 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] chortles81
But even then, Voidgazer should be among those that know better.

Re: I'd say "massive amounts of propaganda"

Date: 2016-08-07 06:09 pm (UTC)
cainofdreaming: b/w (Default)
From: [personal profile] cainofdreaming
Maybe she also knew better than to step on the Emperor's toes. If he wants it regarded as just superstition I wouldn't want to be the first one to disprove the notion.

Date: 2016-08-07 02:58 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
As far as I recall, most of the "Superstition" thing seems to be after Palpatine's rise in power. so i guess he may have erased most evidence of The Force and let people believe it wasn't real?

Date: 2016-08-07 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
The person calling it a superstition has worked alongside Vader in the past, so yeah, that doesn't work for me ;)

Honestly, it just seems like a way to chump out everyone who isn't a Force user. Maybe that's the true power of the force, it makes everyone else a freakin' moron.

Date: 2016-08-07 05:16 pm (UTC)
ozaline: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
In the Rebels cartoon they stated there were around 10,000 Jedi... 10,000 in a galaxy of trillions... Most people would not have met a jedi, and even holo-recordings would probably be scarce since they didn't exactly have news crews following them around on all their missions.

It wouldn't take that much of a push for Palpatine to convince people like Han Solo that the tales of the Jedi's powers were at the very least overrated, but yeah someone who'd seen Vader in action before should at least be convinced there's something to it.
From: [personal profile] chortles81
There's enough cybernetics, being-portable technology, and good-old-fashioned trickery in-universe for someone to mistake Force-wielding for them; inside Echo Base as Vader was headed towards the Millennium Falcon some Rebel troopers tried to 'burn out his energy shield' with which he was tanking their blaster fire...

Date: 2016-08-07 03:13 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] remial
Kinda reminds me of the character Jetfire from one of the Transformers series who was a scientist and an atheist, despite having met Primus, the GOD of the Transformers

Date: 2016-08-07 05:12 pm (UTC)
ozaline: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
Or Sanya in the Dresden Files a knight who weilds a sword which contains a piece of the true cross against demons; who knows that vampires and fairies are real, and who was personally given his sword by an archangel...

and is agnostic, cause for all he knows Micheal might not be an "angel," he could be an "alien."

Date: 2016-08-07 07:13 pm (UTC)
dustbunny105: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dustbunny105
I can understand being agnostic in those circumstances, tbh. On the one hand, the inarguable existence of vampires and fairies and the like could speak to the existence of a higher power. On the other hand, it could suggest people have attributed encounters with and doings of the likes of vampires and fairies to a higher power. Even that piece of the true cross could reasonably be some homegrown magic.

The "maybe he's an alien" bit, though, that's kinda weird...

Date: 2016-08-07 08:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
No, that makes sense. Clarke's law and all that.

And the larger point- the existence of a being with abilities considerably beyond my own who claims to be worthy of worship does not mean that I am obligated to consider that being worthy of worship.

Date: 2016-08-07 10:08 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Discworld witches take a slightly more direct view

“Most witches don’t believe in gods. They know that the gods exist, of course. They even deal with them occasionally. But they don’t believe in them. They know them too well. It would be like believing in the postman.”

Terry Pratchett - Witches Abroad

Date: 2016-08-07 11:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
The difference is that Sanya doesn't agree on the exact nature of the source of his power, he's never disputed the effects. When someone says 'this bad guy can throw lightning', Sanya never questions it.

Date: 2016-08-07 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Except Jetfire's never met Primus (outside of the end of the second War Within miniseries, where he sees him frazzle The Fallen, and the guy didn't exactly stick around to say "hi").
And rarely displays any actual atheistic attitudes as is.

Date: 2016-08-08 08:40 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shadur
Nice job, Baron Von Blabs About His Only Weak Spot.

Date: 2016-08-08 12:13 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
That would be Baroness von Blabs About His Only Weak Spot

Date: 2016-08-08 01:17 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
"Who can possibly survive this one?"

... Darth Vader, surely?


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