Date: 2017-03-13 01:29 am (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
Is that Cass as Batman?

Date: 2017-03-13 01:31 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] caivu
Helena Wayne.

Date: 2017-03-13 05:20 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
The same Helena Wayne who was hanging out with Power Girl on Earth 1 after the Nu52 reboot?

Date: 2017-03-14 03:56 am (UTC)
lyricalswagger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lyricalswagger
Yes.

Date: 2017-03-13 03:06 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Chamber - Skottie Young)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
Ah, okay. Interest lost.

Date: 2017-03-13 02:07 am (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
So is there going to be a reboot of this? Or is this the final issue?

If this is the last issue, wouldn't the 1/3rd rule apply?

Date: 2017-03-13 04:45 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
For now, it's the final issue. If there's a relaunch, it hasn't been announced.

Date: 2017-03-13 03:11 am (UTC)
lamashtar: The Great Hal Jordan (awesome)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
I miss the days when they put little captions with the hero's name in it next them.

Alan's mask looks REALLY dorky. And he still needs a cape.

Date: 2017-03-13 04:34 am (UTC)
razsolo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] razsolo
Agreed on Alan's mask...And speaking of dorky headwear, does Hawkgirl have fake hawk eyes above her real eyes?? LOL

Date: 2017-03-13 08:30 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
There's a lot of terrible design choices here. Alan's shapeless mask, the colors on Steel's jacket, Jay's dopey visor, Helena's giant popped collar, and Robin's mask looks a tiny green fox head.

Date: 2017-03-13 04:27 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
Whatever those are, they seem to be migrating from the underside to the top of her headgear.

Date: 2017-03-13 03:12 am (UTC)
lyricalswagger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lyricalswagger
This concept had a lot of potential, but it's like DC was determined to make it awful in execution.

Date: 2017-03-13 03:54 am (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
To all things, a mercy killing.
Because dear lord, did they screw up the entire concept of Earth-2, as what the long-time fans wanted from an Earth-2, right from the start. I mean seriously, when the backstory involves a world war with Darkseid, and the death of the "trinity," you've already gone too far.

Making all of the characters young and inexperienced, when you already have a main line full of supposedly inexperienced characters. Creating characters that may share the names, but are nothing like what we expect--Alan Scott as a green-powered Superman being the first example...

Blowing up the Earth. Killing off people left and right. And so on and so on. I jumped ship on this misery train a long time ago and never regretted it.

Sadly, it's NOW with this lineup, that it looks like something interesting and full of potential.

Oh, and what a waste of Power Girl and Huntress, just in general. Sigh.

Date: 2017-03-13 04:06 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
-to all things, a mercy killing-
Only absent any real sense of mercy.
Mercy would've been putting this thing down a long while back.

The idea of reinventing the JSA, making them younger and more diverse, showing the formation of a new version was not a bad idea.
But what we got...

Okay, there are a few rare gems buried in it here and there, a few moments in the Robinson run that were okay, but everything else?
Thomas Wayne alive?
Red Tornado being Lois Lane?
The continual screwing over of Helena Wayne?
Urgh...

Date: 2017-03-13 04:43 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Eh, Lois as Red Tornado wasn't all bad and her dealing with her new body was interesting, especially near the end.

I agree with you with everything else though. But i didn't think Red Tornado was bad. Certainly not the worst thing about this book at least.

Date: 2017-03-13 05:20 am (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
Since we're at it, and I do love harping on about this, I agree heartily.

I actually think starting from scratch with the various characters, while controversial, was a good idea. There's a conceptual flexibility with someone like Alan Scott that you simply don't get with a Batman, and I think that could have be used for some really interesting turns. Even the Apokalips War stuff and the death of the Trinity had potential in establishing a strange new starting point for the universe.

Unfortunately, the execution was never great, the focus was frequently on the wrong things, and while they did eventually do some radical things (the characters are after all on their second planet) they never did it in the small ways that actually matter.

What a wasted opportunity.

Date: 2017-03-13 12:42 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
what make you think that a strange new starting point was what was appropriate?

Date: 2017-03-18 06:51 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
Well DC clearly wasn't interested in doing it as a retro style book, in which case there needed to be some kind of hook outside of it featuring the old Earth-2 characters. Setting it in the wake of a weird superhero war/invasion from Darkseid establishes an unusual starting place which had the potential to be interesting.

It wasn't done well in the end, but it wasn't inherently a bad take on what they were clearly going for.
Edited Date: 2017-03-18 07:29 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-03-13 08:47 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
It's NOW with this lineup, that it looks like something interesting and full of potential.

Oracle is what the hell, but I would've killed to read about All-New, All Different Batman and Robin there.

Date: 2017-03-13 03:25 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Some stuff I could see working, even the dark Darkseid entrance.

But the big flaw was, as you mention, the inexperience thing made it *redundant*.

-Blowing up the Earth. Killing off people left and right. And so on and so on. I jumped ship on this misery train a long time ago and never regretted it.-

This seems to be the big flaw of a lot of 'newer' worlds. When they start to falter, rather than add to their their strengths they start breaking stuff for drama til in the end there's not enough left and the doors close.

Wildstorm, Ultimates, Earth 2. Three cases, all three similar courses once things began to go downhill (though with different lengths of time before that happened).

Date: 2017-03-13 06:36 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Not to mention New Universe before that, which started out as "the world outside your window" before they destroyed Pittsburgh and a godlike baby stopped a nuclear war. And I'm sure there are other examples.

Date: 2017-03-13 10:22 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
It wouldn't surprise me if we got almost all of them, out of bigger lines at least- due to the prevalence of the other common method of ending a universe, "comic ends mid-story with little to no wrapup."

Hm, it does strike me all four had some Big 2 backing, so they had a bit more room to experiment as they petered out... all experimenting the same way.

Four! That's way too many to go the same-route-that-doesn't-work. I mean, none of 'em were rescued by it, or even seem to be prolonged that long to my eyes... Wildstorm probably hung on the longest...

Date: 2017-03-14 12:03 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
This sort of massive, apocalyptic reinvention certainly doesn't appear to be an effective way to revive a flagging universe, based on the 0 for 4 record.

I suspect at least some of the blame goes to Continuity Lockout. When the Ultimate Universe got started, it was deliberately easy pick up. Wolverine heals and has claws, Ben Grimm is rough but good-hearted, Thor has a magic hammer, etc.

After the reinvention got started, the new Wolverine was Logan's son from the time he slept with Wanda and Pietro's mom, Ben Grimm had become Wonder Man, and Thor and Hela's evil son Modi is trying to mind control President Captain America. That's just not a good way to a pick up new readers.

Date: 2017-03-14 12:45 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Ben Grimm as Wonder Man always seemed like an interesting idea.
(Okay, it didn't make much sense, and broke the FF's "four elements" theme, but hey...)

And the problems with the Ultimate universe were a little worse than just being complicated to follow...

Date: 2017-03-14 03:30 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Oh, absolutely. All of the mentioned universes had problems before their revamps. That's usually why they revamps happened.

With New Universe, the realism aspect was only partially enforced, resulting in stuff like Justice being about an alien knight from a fantasy world, or Kickers, Inc being about pro football players who act as part-time heroes for hero.

With Wildstorm, WildC.A.T.s had been too deconstructed to really go anywhere, and the Authority had been restarted so many times that by the time New52 came around, the name had so little cred left they made them Stormwatch again.

With Earth 2, as other people here mentioned, the Trinity being gone wasn't a compelling idea when the readers didn't know how that changed anything, and inexperienced heroes was what all of New52 was offering.

With the Ultimate Universe, the revamp began with Ultimatum, but the decay had started with Ultimates 3.

Date: 2017-03-14 10:07 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
-This sort of massive, apocalyptic reinvention certainly doesn't appear to be an effective way to revive a flagging universe, based on the 0 for 4 record.-

I take that as one of the big refutations of the 'destruction for drama/sales' storytelling method, at least on the business end. When big-2 writers don't have to work under the constraints of the big-2 worlds forcing heroes and such to stay alive and not wrecking the setting too much... they wreck the setting too much.

Hm, there's also a third datapoint here, in long running creator owned superhero titles- Invincible, Astro City, Gold Digger, a couple others. There, the writers will advance the timelines and sometimes do big changes, but they always have much more mind on what they're keeping around and going from there.

The one I can think of that is wrecking the world and having it kinda work, Hellboy, both foreshadowed that forever, makes it a more gradual process, leaves in most of the characters, and has an endgame in mind so it's not intended to revitalize the universe but be part of the story arc.

Oh, and I can think of a universe where the opposite kinda worked- IDW revitalized things by... ending the war between Autobots and Decepticons and putting everyone at peace. Which shifted the context of all the characters and made them interesting. Unlike the world falling apart (which is honestly not all *that* out of context from Superhero's normal, what with them fighting all the time), it gave the universe a real shot in the arm to try and focus on building rather than winning.

-I suspect at least some of the blame goes to Continuity Lockout. When the Ultimate Universe got started, it was deliberately easy pick up. Wolverine heals and has claws, Ben Grimm is rough but good-hearted, Thor has a magic hammer, etc.

After the reinvention got started, the new Wolverine was Logan's son from the time he slept with Wanda and Pietro's mom, Ben Grimm had become Wonder Man, and Thor and Hela's evil son Modi is trying to mind control President Captain America. That's just not a good way to a pick up new readers.-

One problem does seem to be, "Yea, we're our own universe and not DC or Marvel main, we can do what we want!" without necessarily thinking of long-term storytelling.

It's ok to do big changes, but you can't do big changes on everything all the time, and you can't break all your toys to show you can because while, yes, you've shown you can mess with your toys, now all of the toys are broken or bent or are different toys and it might've been a good idea to make sure the new shape of the toys work together in a new status quo.

Hm, that's a big thing too- Even with the changes, there was just change after change and such, destruction after destruction, no attempt to *make* a new status quo rather than seeing who'd break next. Contrasted again to the IDW Transformers example where the big successful change was all about a new status quo.

Even if things were a lot different than the main line versions- Miles Morales!- if they stuck with and build them up, that can work, but that wasn't the setup as every change had to immediately deal with the next big 'everything explodes and a few more heroes go down.'

Date: 2017-03-13 04:31 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] yap
I only picked up this for the female Anarky but I really could have used some explanation there.

Date: 2017-03-13 04:41 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
I'm really glad Lois Lane/Red Tornado got to be a reporter again. Though it's odd that while she wears clothes while doing her journalistic work, she's "naked" while super heroing.

Date: 2017-03-13 01:47 pm (UTC)
informationgeek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] informationgeek
It's like Clark Kent when he puts on glasses. No one suspects a thing! :D


But seriously, glad to see she made it out of this. Honestly, I don't know how you would do it, but I kind of what a comic series about her as Red Tornado. Being a reporter, being a hero, dealing with her robot body, and all of that. Get the right writer and I think it could be rather neat.

Date: 2017-03-13 10:33 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
I'd love that! Seeing how she deals with her robot body, being a hero and reporter would be great!

Date: 2017-03-13 08:21 am (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
It feels weird to me that writers continue to treat the wheelchair - rather than Barbara Gordon's specific intelligence and experience - as the attribute that defines "Oracle" throughout the Multiverse. It makes the role feel like a consolation prize.
Edited Date: 2017-03-13 08:21 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-03-13 03:22 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Fair, although it is Dick Grayson who's tightly tied to Oracle.

Date: 2017-03-14 12:07 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
*waits for icon_uk to respond with Dick Grayson bondage*

Date: 2017-03-13 12:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Is Jay still the only likable person from Nu Earth 2?

Date: 2017-03-13 03:30 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
i liked Alan...

Date: 2017-03-14 05:49 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Been a while since I read it but I remember him spending a lot of the first arc sulking while Grundy fought everyone else.

Hawkgirl was pretty badass and I felt sorry for the Fate host... i guess that's close enough to likable.

Date: 2017-03-13 03:22 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Fairly pleasant ending, at least :)

Date: 2017-03-13 10:04 pm (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
And that's how you know you know next Crisis, this earth will be first on the chopping block.

Date: 2017-03-13 10:17 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Ah, yea, likely true.

Date: 2017-03-13 08:10 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Helena as Batman seems to be very much in the "about damn time" column.

Date: 2017-03-13 08:38 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
Earth-2 has a Luthor.

The time of Alexei Luthor has come again.

Date: 2017-03-13 10:05 pm (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
Could have done without the scene outside of these scans with Helena mocking the idea of a Batwoman or Batgirl.
Edited Date: 2017-03-13 10:05 pm (UTC)

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