Date: 2017-03-19 08:04 pm (UTC)
lucean: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lucean
It will be interesting to look back at War Games and see if it holds up as well as I remember. What makes this arc so sad to me is that not only was a key story component derailed because of editorial meddling, but Didio seemed proud about having forced the issue.

Date: 2017-03-19 08:31 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Why did Didio and Company want to kill off Stephanie Brown? Aside from "Because Dan Didio hates you, that's why" as I said rather often way back when. Maybe to trick the fans before giving them the middle finger.

Date: 2017-03-19 08:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
I still do not understand why he wanted to kill Dick, either.

Date: 2017-03-19 08:58 pm (UTC)
doctornone: Judge Death  and Anderson Bolland (Default)
From: [personal profile] doctornone
Too many jokes, perhaps.

Date: 2017-03-19 09:11 pm (UTC)
zechs80: (Mayuri)
From: [personal profile] zechs80
You may not like the actual answer.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/07/15/%E2%80%9Csome-kind-of-gang-war-in-gotham%E2%80%9D-and-%E2%80%9Cspoiler-was-gonna-die%E2%80%9D/

I wish more writers were more open like Horrocks was. I'd love to know why the Bat Family were all screwed up during this period. Stephanie was the first. Dick next. Then Tim (WG-IC-OYL), Dick again (OYL), and Cassandra (OYL) got put through the ringer.

It's amazing miracle that Gail Simone walked away with Birds of Prey unharmed from any of these sorts of shenanigans until her New 52 Batgirl run apparently.

Date: 2017-03-20 01:25 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Part of it was Isolating Batman more and more. "Officer Down" had Gordon getting shot and retiring and Alfred quitting. In guessing it was supposed to be "fixed" in Bruce Wayne: Fugitive but lasted to Infinite Crisis.

Date: 2017-03-19 09:58 pm (UTC)
lucean: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lucean
From what I understand, he didn't. The editorial made the decision, but what Didio did was to force them to make her Robin first which utterly derailed the story the creative was setting up. It probably even ended up hurting Cass because the initial storylines leading up to War Games seemed to be more focused on pushing Cass before they had to that insane detour.

As for why, I don't know if there is an easy answer for it. Something that's often ignored in the discussion is that they seemed to pruning down a Bat-Clan a lot at that point and I just don't think they saw a place for Steph anymore in it. It doesn't justify the decision as it is hitting at the tertiary characters who are often the minority additions as the core characters are the white men.

Date: 2017-03-19 09:48 pm (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
I never liked Steph, but I would have preferred she take a long flight, to some place far far away, NEVER to be seen again, instead of "dying" the way she did.

Date: 2017-03-19 11:13 pm (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
Honestly if every single crime lord in the city is stupid enough to start a gunfight like they think they're John Woo or something at a meeting with friggin' metahumans present something like this was bound to happen on it's own. Not really Steph's fault.

I mean, look at the motherfucker aiming at fucking Deadshot like he totally has his number. Or Bushido Boy over there whipping out a katana in a gun fight. Any given meeting between these people is gonna be a gangland massacre waiting to happen.
Edited Date: 2017-03-19 11:20 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-03-20 01:22 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Supposedly the "Matches Malone takes over the Gotham mobs" idea wasn't on Batman's "To do" list. It was on his "In case of emergency, break glass" list. Maybe even an "idle speculation" idea, since Batman writes down his idle speculations in obsessive detail. Because he's Batman.

Something in War Games explains this. Don't know where.

Date: 2017-03-19 11:23 pm (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
About the only good thing War Games did was to put to death the stupid "urban legend" thing the Bat editors had been insisting on maintaining since Zero Hour.

Date: 2017-03-20 02:49 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] lego_joker
I liked the whole urban legend thing... :|

Really, it's not the Bat-editors' fault the Justice League books keep asking for Batman when logically speaking he's got no business being there EXCEPT boosting sales.

Date: 2017-03-20 03:23 am (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
the problem is that urban legend Batman was being shoehorned in with years of continuity behind him, so it doesn't make any damn sense.

It's a natural storytelling device early in Batman's career, but eventually as a superhero universe expands he's going to grow out of it.

Date: 2017-03-20 05:46 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Or it makes Tim Drake look extra awesome: he figured out Bruce Wayne was Batman when most people were unsure Batman even existed.

Date: 2017-03-20 10:56 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Just to note that Tim first worked out Dick was Robin (When he noticed doing a quadruple somersault, a move which Dick was probably the only person on earth to achieve, and certainly the only person of that age), not that Bruce was Batman. Once he made the connection between Dick and Robin, Batman was obvious.... *

* Well, not automatically obvious, but still more obvious than the situation when we discovered that the New52 DCU was so completely thick that even the reveal that Nightwing was Dick Grayson in Forever Evil didn't cause anyone other than Luthor to make the connection,

Date: 2017-03-20 10:57 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The whole urban legend thing was torpedoed when the New Teen Titans were a high profile, media friendly team, being led by Robin, who was publicly known as being the sidekick of Batman (Who was in the JLA and the Outsiders, so wasn't exactly low profile either)

Date: 2017-03-20 10:43 pm (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
Fair enough. It just really, really doesn't work for me. But my Batman's always been more "Caped Crusader" than "Dark Knight."

Some of that, I admit, may just be bitterness over the hoops they had to go through using Robin in Young Justice, which was largely borne out of the Bat-office not wanting to play fair with the rest of the DCU in general.

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