Trouble

Apr. 6th, 2017 02:35 am
[personal profile] history79 posting in [community profile] scans_daily



"Marvel's quite interesting in that people were saying 'Aunt May grew up in the twenties!' But I think that Marvel has been quite cleverly vague about that for 40 years. Peter Parker doesn't become Spider-Man in the early '60s, he became Spider-Man ten or twelve years ago. In 50 years' time, he'll just have become Spider-Man ten or twelve years ago. So in that sense, this story is set and then ends nine months before Peter Parker enters the world."

- Mark Millar




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8 pages of 24

















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Date: 2017-04-06 02:22 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
Ah yes, the stories of the sexual escapades of Aunt May and Uncle Ben that NO ONE WANTED.

Seriously, if you wanted to revive the Romance comic genre, why in the name of all that is Holy would you get MARK "THIS IS WHAT EVIL DICK TASTES LIKE" MILLAR to write it?

Date: 2017-04-06 03:12 am (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
My timeline might be way off, but wasn't this published long before Millar started doing his own creator-owned stuff? This might even pre-date Ultimates.

Date: 2017-04-06 03:24 am (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
Weird that on the trade cover they credit him as the writer of Kick-Ass.

Date: 2017-04-06 03:25 am (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
Ah, then my timeline could very well be way off. Sorry.

Date: 2017-04-06 03:37 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Trouble was published in 2003, Kick-Ass in 2008. The hardcover trade for this came out in 2011.
Edited Date: 2017-04-06 03:38 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-04-06 11:47 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
True, but even back then there were warning signs I feel.

In 2000 Millar wrote "Superman for the Animals", a PSA against animal cruelty Starring Superman where he reads a letter sent by a kid talking about how Supes inspired him to stand up to one of his friends who had been torturing animals.

And they don't exactly spare the gruseome details either, this entire issue is basically this kid Ballser torturing and murdering any animal he can get his hands on. Linkara actually did an episode on this comic, and watching it just made me go "...Yep that's what I expect out of Millar."

Date: 2017-04-06 02:49 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Immediately before writing this, Millar wrote 'Wanted', which featured characters like Johnny TwoDicks, a Bizzarro knockoff named Fuckwit who is expressly identified as having Down's Syndrome and the character 'Shithead', a clayface clone 'made from the feces of the 666 most evil people in the world...who eventually kills 'The Professor' by drowning him in his body (when said Dr. Sivana clone is out looking for teen prositutes).

And his Authority work had already happened by this time, too, with the Seth and the Authority dopplegangers (cue themes of sexual abuse, child rape, graphic dismemberment, etc). There was of course also his Ultimates run, with its infamous 'baby look at what you made me do' wasp/Giant Man material. The Unfunnies probably happened parallel to this, so we can count that out.

So Millar already solidly had done the kind of material that would make it doubtful that he'd be the best fit for this concept, if it was a good idea at all (which arguably it was not).

Date: 2017-04-06 03:47 pm (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
I don't know, I think a story about Young Aunt May and Uncle Ben meeting and falling in love could be a neat one shot.

But not THIS. Millar had to take simple concept for a story, and make it as skeevy and unpleasant as possible.

Date: 2017-04-06 01:09 pm (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
Thanks. Wow, okay. We'll just call this whole conversation "An Example of Dum Dum Nick."

Date: 2017-04-06 09:11 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Even granting that the timeframe wasn't flush with romance writers, he's still on the bottom of the list!

Like, give this to Bendis? Bendis isn't a romance writer per se but he's sure not this!

Date: 2017-04-06 02:37 am (UTC)
informationgeek: (lyra)
From: [personal profile] informationgeek
Now who didn't want a romance comic about Aunt May's sex adventures as a horny young adult? :D

:D

:D

:|


I need to post more romance manga to counteract this crap.

Date: 2017-04-06 03:43 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Not that I expect Marvel to care about continuity but Ben and May were considerably older than Richard and Mary.

Edited Date: 2017-04-06 03:47 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-04-06 04:11 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Has they ever said the exact age difference? The age gap between Ben and Richard always seemed rather big.

Date: 2017-04-06 03:57 am (UTC)
lissa_quon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lissa_quon
Does this even count as a romance comic? It feels more wrapped up in the sexy times than any sort of interaction or emotions. (I know this is a summary but it really doesn't feel like conversations were had with folks with clothes on)

Also why did we need this weird ass "Peter is May's kid" thing - that just doesn't accomplish anything. Unless its the good ol' "his relationship with his aunt only matters cause shes really his mom" thing.

Date: 2017-04-06 04:02 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Is this Millar doing his own take on Dirty Dancing without the dancing?

Date: 2017-04-06 05:16 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
This is not a good story, but I honestly feel like Millar went into it with good intentions.

In her best portrayals, Aunt May had the wry wisdom that comes from having lived a full life. It's not hard to square that with the idea that she was an irresponsible hellion in her youth and learned what was important the hard way. Don't ask your grandparents about their teen years unless you really want to know.

Even the very guessable twist that May is Peter's actual mom could have served a purpose as part of a larger thesis on what parenthood is and what that favorite Spider-theme, responsibility, means.

Unfortunately, any attempt to build the four Spider-parents-to-be up as believable people-- as sort of promised in the first couple of pages-- disappears in the whir and clank of a dozen old storytelling gimmicks. Sure, let's shoehorn an ambiguously worded prophecy into the story and watch as, like every other prophecy in fiction since Macbeth, it turns out to be TRUE... BUT IN A WAY NOBODY EXPECTED! Sure, let's have May parrot Mary Jane's famous first line for no reason and be naked and holding a condom while she does it. Sure, let's do a Watchmen-style "I got pregnancy-tested twelve hours thirty-five minutes ago" and hope nobody asks why Mary didn't notice May getting progressively more agitated for two and a half weeks. Sure, "I'm pregnant... I'm sterile." And sure, sure, sure, let's give these teens nothing worth noting in their emotional lives except their hormonal urges and the consequences thereof. That's how you know they're teens!

(And let's not even talk about Bucky Barnes.)

Prequels are tricky. People have already read the ending and you can't change it, so you have to find new ways to surprise them and yet still deliver that ending. The biggest trouble with Trouble is that Millar doesn't seem to trust his characters to find their own way there. They're in the story to do two things: shock easily-shocked readers and give Spider-Man a new and even more contrived origin. The demands of those two jobs are too constant for them to act like humans consistently, too.

Date: 2017-04-06 05:45 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
You know, I'm not adverse to the idea that May was wild when she was young.

But I kinda don't want to hear about it. At least not to the level of detail this went into.

This is the comic equivalent of walking in on your parents having sex. Its just uncomfortable for everyone involved.
Edited Date: 2017-04-06 05:46 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-04-06 09:29 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
I could actually see liking a romance comic with young May if it were, y'know, better and had an utterly different plot.

Date: 2017-04-06 01:12 pm (UTC)
miramira: book stack (Default)
From: [personal profile] miramira
I'd rather have the version where she actually went on that road trip. I mean, she could meet guys and hook up along the way; it just doesn't have to be all there is to it.

Also, given how hard May worked to set MJ up with Peter, that "you hit the jackpot" panel creeps me out on an Oedipal level.

Date: 2017-04-06 09:47 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
-I'd rather have the version where she actually went on that road trip. I mean, she could meet guys and hook up along the way; it just doesn't have to be all there is to it.-

Yea. Her being a young and awesome romantically active teen who ends up with Ben is fine. Heck, story idea- do a bait and switch with another suitor named 'Ben' only for Ben Parker to show up later in the story.

It's just... this? Nah.

-Also, given how hard May worked to set MJ up with Peter, that "you hit the jackpot" panel creeps me out on an Oedipal level.-

Yes, *that*.

Date: 2017-04-06 10:00 am (UTC)
dc2houseofmystery: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dc2houseofmystery
It almost feels like this might be a prequel to ULTIMATE Spider-Man, as Bucky was alive and thrived in that continuity.

Date: 2017-04-06 06:13 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Mary kinda looks like Gwen Stacy in some of these panels.

Date: 2017-04-06 07:03 am (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
Which adds a whole 'nother level of wrong to all of this. :)

Date: 2017-04-06 08:38 am (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
I mean, there's no possible way May and Mary looking like Mary Jane and Gwen wasn't intentional.

Date: 2017-04-06 01:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jmacq1
I ever-so-vaguely recall Marvel being super-coy with the marketing for this. Not mentioning that it was about May and Ben, etc... but hyping it as one of "the most shocking must-read titles of the year!" or somesuch.

Couple that with the creepiest covers in mainstream comics at the time (photo covers, to be precise) and...yeah. Just weird and kinda creepy all around.

Date: 2017-04-06 03:00 pm (UTC)
spidermanwashere: (Default)
From: [personal profile] spidermanwashere
Don't worry May, you'll get to raise Spider-Man one day. Which is pretty cool.

Date: 2017-04-06 03:12 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
So this is like the answer to a question no one had asked.

Romance comics? Sure, go ahead.

A story that makes Peter literally May's son, but that her best friend pretends that it's hers and raises him until their untimely death and then May adopts him as a nephew? To what end?

Also, so many elements of this just seem weird. That quote from Millar detailing the sliding time scale, as if we were unware it existed? Um, DUH. Yes, we know that May and Peter aren't actually that old. If Peter was 15 in 1962, then he was born in the FORTIES. The only point of mentioning that was...what, to point out that you've retconned May's to be a teenager in what, the 1970s? And what a weird version of the 70s we've got going on here, really. The fashions are really odd for the 60s, 70s or 80s. I suppose that's intentional, but if so, then why bother? Also, the weird PG-13 approach of this series, where we apparently can't swear or saying the word 'condom' but can constantly show teenagers boning on golf courses or the like is a strange tone. But then nobody in this thing talks like actual people, anyways. 'Squaring the Circle', indeed.

Date: 2017-04-06 03:27 pm (UTC)
coldfury: (Default)
From: [personal profile] coldfury
Personally, I'm more creeped out with May using the tiger line than anything else. They're drawing parallels between MJ and Peter's Aunt, in this weird Oedipus fashion.

Date: 2017-04-11 10:16 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
And they make Mary look like Gwen too. It's an... Odd easter egg, to say the least.
Edited Date: 2017-04-11 10:17 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-04-07 11:06 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gnarll
Well, all who are old were once young, and young people back then were not that different from young people now. Even less responsible, if we are honest. And the young always make mistakes.

But not all mistakes are created equal.

This stuff here... Aunt May cheating on uncle Ben with his brother, cheating on her best friend, asking her best friend to cover for her while planning to bang her boyfriend while her friend, oblivious is actually covering, seeming willing to pass off another mans baby as Bens...

And Richard Parker, having an affair with his brothers girlfriend, and from the way I read it his brother hasn't been very popular with the girls. Maybe his first love.

These are not mistakes of inexperience or errors of passion. These are ongoing deceptions showing a massive callousness towards the people closest to them.

Date: 2017-04-07 03:37 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
I didn't hate this... I actually kinda liked this... it wasn't GREAT though, and apparently I am not feeling so scandalized about May having a sex life as most people here are. I agree a better writer... maybe a female writer, would have done better.

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