flint_marko: (The Bride)
[personal profile] flint_marko posting in [community profile] scans_daily


When Charles Soule started his Daredevil run DD's secret identity was back in the closet, with only Foggy Nelson knowing who he really was. Today's issue revealed what caused the new status quo.





Daredevil visits his girlfriend Kirsten, from Mark Waid's run, but she doesn't know he's really Matt anymore.



Maybe this was explained elsewhere, but I think there's a little discrepancy with how the mindwipe thing was supposed to work. Before it was shown that Elektra remembers being with both Matt and Daredevil, she just thinks they were two different people and that she was cheating on Matt. Here Kirsten only remembers being with Matt.

Daredevil visits Foggy, who doesn't remember who he is either until he unmasks.



Daredevil goes back to the Purple Man's machine, only to find it destroyed. He fights some crime and sees that nobody else knows who he really is anymore either.



Matt breaks up with her.

Date: 2017-05-17 10:10 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
What a waste.

Date: 2017-05-18 03:15 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
It really is, and not just because I liked Kirsten. This story completely and utterly robs her of the thing Waid usually took care to give her: agency.

Soule does do a lot of justice to her character in other respects. She is a not-superhuman but strong woman, made stronger by her sense of humor, and handles the craziness of Daredeviltry with relative ease. (I was very pleasantly surprised to find that her "voice" was recognizable.) For that matter, even Matt's character seems about right to me here. He's falling into old patterns-- "All my girlfriends die, I'm lying to protect her, something violent will always happen to us because I live in a serial comic book, blah blah"-- but doing so as a believable reaction to the identity crisis that left him extra vulnerable to the Purple Man in the first place.

And regarding that crisis, the struggle is real, but there's nothing about it that really sells the idea that the fix for all Matt's problems is to go back to more or less the way he was when Frank Miller was writing him, only single. With all due respect to his Father Confessor, this is not a good decision.

I *believe* this story, I just don't *enjoy* it. Because in the end, no matter how you dress it up, this is still a story about Matt giving up on personal growth as soon as Kirsten and Foggy are not in a position to stop him, whereas Waid's run was very much about the decision to make personal growth, and the importance of friends and loved ones who'll keep you on that path. (Foggy doesn't get much agency either, but he has less of an excuse. Dude should never have let this stand.)

Maybe there was no way to do a new Daredevil series that honored that, especially since the much jollier and self-actualized Matt of Waid's last issues was about as far from Netflix Matt as Adam West's Batman was from Ben Affleck's, and at some point, media synergy's gotta synergize. But that don't mean I gotta like it.

Another way to go with this story would be for the Purple Kids to put Matt's secret ID back in the bottle, Matt to tell Kirsten just like he told Foggy-- and for Matt to insist on keeping his secret ID secret from anyone else, from then on. That's a decision his best friend and girlfriend would have a VERY hard time accepting after all the events of Waid's run, and ultimately it's one they might not condone. You still get to the exact same place, but you do it without making Kirsten a half-brainwashed patsy.

I dunno which version makes Matt look worse, though: the one where he surrenders to his anxieties right at the moment where it's easiest to do so and makes the "clean break," or the one where he clings to those anxieties all the way through weeks of arguing with those who knew him at his happiest.

Date: 2017-05-18 04:28 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Especially since Foggy doesn't hang out with Matt anymore because of all this. It wouldn't have been hard to have Kristen break up with him for similar reasons.

Date: 2017-05-17 10:13 pm (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
Still a better mindwipe than OMD.

Date: 2017-05-17 10:39 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
I'm having a hard time imaging a worse retcon than OMD.

Date: 2017-05-17 10:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] remial
Superboy Prime punching time has to be close

Date: 2017-05-17 10:51 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Naw not even close. I mean as shitty as supeboy punch was it was an external force altering their lives. Not a hero making a deal with an evil abomination that may or may not be the literal devil and pissing away his marraige and unborn child to selfishly save an old woman who would definitely not approve.

Date: 2017-05-17 11:26 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Nope don't buy it Peter making ever effort to save his aunt is one thing making a deal with the devil is just straight up character assassination IMO and portrays Peter horribly. The entire situation was badly written from beginning to end.

Date: 2017-05-18 12:04 am (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Does Peter bear some of the blame for Aunt May's injury yes he made a lot of bad decisions that led up to it. But frankly saving Aunt May by trading his marriage is a worse decision than letting her die because Aunt May herself would not want to be saved by Peter doing something like that.

I agree it doesn't make Peter stupid to save his aunt though it does make him look incredibly selfish and immature which may be how Marvel wants Peter to be but frankly I consider it bad writing.

Date: 2017-05-18 03:08 am (UTC)
laughing_tree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughing_tree
"Aunt May herself would not want to be saved by Peter doing something like that."

That should not be a calculation in a superhero's thinking. When the innocent person says, "No, I'm not worth it," the hero says, "Yes, you are."

Date: 2017-05-18 07:23 am (UTC)
outlawpoet: (Default)
From: [personal profile] outlawpoet
the problem is that it's not "I'm not worth it", but "I don't want the literal devil using me as bait"

Date: 2017-05-18 11:40 am (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Like outlaw poet said it isn't May saying "I'm not worth it" she would be saying "Don't sacrifice other lives for mine." Which is something someone should consider.

I also don't consider it the same as a hero trying to save someone who doesn't want to be saved on the street because Peter would not make this same sacrifice for other people even if he was 100% responsible for their condition. I mean I personally don't see Mephisto showing up saying "Hey Spiderman this person got shot by a bullet you dodged and is dying wanna trade your marriage to me to save their life?" Resulting in Peter agreeing to do it.

This entire thing is about his feelings for his Aunt and not wanting to deal with the guilt of being partially responsible. Mary Jane only agreed/helped convince peter because she knew how much Peter needed it which makes their entire marraige look incredibly unhealthy.

Date: 2017-05-18 01:47 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
He sacrificed his and Mj's life together which is pretty much sacrificing their lives as they are for something he has no idea about. For all he knew Mephisto could have conned him and saved Aunt May from the gunshot only to have her die of natural causes at the same time. Or the loss of his and MJ's happiness could have resulted in her dying at the hands of her stalker if in the new time line if they weren't together when that mess went down.

Frankly the deal should have set off a massive chain reaction as it would affect not just the two of them but everyone they ever interacted with the only reason it didn't was this was all an editorial ploy to get rid of the marriage.

Date: 2017-05-18 02:46 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Yes it worked out but neither Peter or MJ knew it would. That's the whole problem with them agreeing to do it. It makes it clear that Peter's guilt complex around his aunt is stronger than his relationship with his wife or his care of what she would want him to do. It results in a Peter that personally I can't really route for and probably explains why I haven't bought a spiderman title since One more day.

Date: 2017-05-18 04:28 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Actually he probably could since he wouldn't be harming Peter just May and death is a part of life. At the end of the day Mephisto being a devil figure should twist every deal anyone ever makes with him to screw them over in some way. Of course that was never going to happen since the entire demon deal was a poorly thought out retcon to get rid of something editorial wanted gone.

The most amusing thing in a how could they be so stupid way about the entire thing is editorial probably figured folks would forget about it and in a few years no one would bring it up(like countless other shitty storylines) but instead hero selling his marriage to the devil has pretty much become one of the defining examples of a shitty story line at editorial whims regardless of how it tarnishes the characters.

Date: 2017-05-18 05:18 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Mephisto as a character has existed since the very beginning managing to screw folks who make deals with him but out of the blue just this once he doesn't and can't cause Peter and MJ in a moment of weakness some how out negotiated him so all he can do is a last minute petty see you aborted your future daughter moment but you won't even remember.

If he litterlaly cannot interfear with anyone important to peter than that makes the deal an even worse deal for him. him not being able to directly touch Peter is one thing. Him not being able to touch anyone peter cares about doesn't make sense. He has also interacted with Flash and others sense then so it makes no sense to me.

Date: 2017-05-18 09:00 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Point though I still contend the entire one more day deal was badly written and clearly just an editorial fiat and even if we go by the premise that Mephisto can't do a thing to Peter or his family it was still the wrong thing to do. The fact editorial was planning to use Mephisto to undo the marriage off and on for years just makes it worse. Since it means they never thought things through despite having several years to do it in.

Date: 2017-05-19 12:45 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
This basically means Aunt May was saved through satanic intervention... that rarely ends well, and she would be the first to wallop Peter upside the head for being so stupid.

Date: 2017-05-19 07:11 pm (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
I'd think she'd do so just on principle.

Date: 2017-05-17 10:55 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
How about Superman reversing time by making the Earth spin backwards? :D

I guess I don't find either of those as awful, because they're completely ridiculous. The writers just phoned in an explanation, and we're supposed to suspend our disbelief. Fine, whatever.

OMD suffers from being a drawn out, "serious" explanation that's gawd-awful. Would have been better if Peter was suddenly single in the next issue, with no explanation ever.

Misconception

Date: 2017-05-17 11:13 pm (UTC)
blue_bolt: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blue_bolt
Apparently he was just flying faster than light and the earth spinning backwards was just to show that he was traveling backwards in time.

Of course, wouldn't there have been 2 Supermans if he did that?

Re: Misconception

Date: 2017-05-17 11:44 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Then why does he need to reverse the reversed spin? If Superman were just going faster than light, the earth would resume its normal motion (relative to him) as soon as he slowed down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjgsnWtBQm0

Re: Misconception

Date: 2017-05-18 12:08 am (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
It was to avoid the two supermen problem. BAsically the spinning Earth was supposed to represent him traveling back in time changing Lois' fate and then traveling back to the point he traveled back from.

It really was a fail on the part of the folks involved not to use something else for the effect. IT is a pretty clear example of something that is easily explained on a comic panel being very hard to do in live action.

Re: Misconception

Date: 2017-05-18 03:10 am (UTC)
laughing_tree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughing_tree
That's always how I interpreted it, since the first time I saw it. I was surprised when I learned others took it more literally.

Re: Misconception

Date: 2017-05-18 04:55 pm (UTC)
an_idol_mind: (Default)
From: [personal profile] an_idol_mind
But if he can travel that fast in the first place, why wouldn't he have been able to catch both missiles?

Re: Misconception

Date: 2017-05-19 12:49 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk

Date: 2017-05-17 11:31 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Honestly I still say if Marvel had to use deal with the devil to undo the marriage they should have had Norman make the deal. I mean imagine if instead PEter had been tempted but realising how seflish it would be turn around and reject Mephisto.

Mephisto feeling cheated immediately goes to Norman Osborne offers him his son Harry back and as a special bonus the complete destruction of Peter's marriage and Norman being the only one to really know his secret ID anymore.

You then could have had a truly heart wrenching moment where Norman confronts Peter and MJ and tells them what he's done just before the deal takes effect. Same out come but instead of being something horrible that Peter did to himself it was something horrible done to him by a villain.
From: [personal profile] philippos42
Oh, I had an idea to "fix" Spider-Man a while ago that involved Pete & MJ realizing that they didn't make a deal with Mephisto, Norman did.

Date: 2017-05-19 04:27 pm (UTC)
zylly: (Atomic Robo Twitch)
From: [personal profile] zylly
That's brilliant.

And it nicely solves the question of why Mephisto didn't pull his usual shit and save May from the gunshot only to be hit by a bus leaving the hospital.

Date: 2017-05-18 01:09 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
I give Superboy punching time a pass. Because, in bringing back Jason Todd, Judd Winnick and Co. had to create a mystery even Batman couldn't solve.

Date: 2017-05-17 10:49 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Yeah it would be really hard and most of the worse than omd scenarios I can think up involving being almost identical just with even worse motivations. Like instead of saving elderly aunt saving your elderly gold fish or maybe you just don't want to be married anymore but don't want the hassle of a divorce so use mephisto deal to get rid of the marriage.

Date: 2017-05-17 10:44 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] remial
wait, how is Matt using a smart phone?

is his sense of touch supposed to be so sensitive that he can feel the electrons through the glass?

Date: 2017-05-17 10:49 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aperturedreams
There are accommodations for the blind to be able to use smartphones, and I believe I saw him use one in Waid's run as well

Date: 2017-05-18 02:33 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: Daredevil: masked Man (Masked Man)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Iphones are all accessible for the visually impaired and many other smartphones are too.

Date: 2017-05-17 11:17 pm (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
Wait, what? He doesn't want to retell his secret ID to his girlfriend so he breaks up with her?

That's like what shitty Superhero boyfriend would do in a parody, dude.

Date: 2017-05-17 11:52 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] philippos42
Matt Murdock's general ethical failings are a recurring theme of the franchise.

Date: 2017-05-18 12:25 am (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
I know but this is bordering on Always Sunny shit

Date: 2017-05-18 02:34 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
now the question is, Do the chances of her getting killed increase or decrease?

Date: 2017-05-18 11:40 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Trick question! She's talked to Matt Murdock, so she's doomed anyway.

Date: 2017-05-18 02:57 am (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
Matt Murdock cannot even conceive of what it means to be happy, even for a while. He had to break up with her because quite simply, he doesn't know how to have anything good in his life for long. This has become a recurring pattern... Daredevil girlfriends are like Spinal Tap's drummer.

Date: 2017-05-18 01:00 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
He's not quite that far gone, not unless you're willing to forget long stretches of his history (and not just the most recent part). But that ol' Catholic guilt means that on the rare occasions that nothing takes his happiness from him, he'll find a way to ruin it for himself.

Date: 2017-05-17 11:52 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
"Before it was shown that Elektra remembers being with both Matt and Daredevil, she just thinks they were two different people and that she was cheating on Matt."

Not just Elektra, but Black Widow too. So yeah, it is weird that it's not the same with Kristen.

Date: 2017-05-18 01:06 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Not that it's spelled out, but that doesn't seem too weird to me, because with Kirsten, Matt was living without a secret identity. Even when they got together, it was something everyone sort of knew but no one could prove. With Elektra and Natasha, he was living as two separate people, with Kirsten, he was living as one... so they remember being with two separate people while Kirsten remembers being with only one. In both cases, their memories are as close to the truth as they can get without putting the most important thing together.

Leaving your exes with memories of committing immoral acts that they didn't actually commit, just for your convenience, is a really, really crappy thing to do, of course, but there it is.

Date: 2017-05-18 04:20 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Makes me wonder what this means for his other civilian ex's then.

Date: 2017-05-18 05:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Well, Dakota North was a one-night stand, Milla Donovan's still institutionalized, Typhoid Mary SHOULD be, and I think everyone else is dead.

The more interesting question is how it affects Wilson Fisk's memories.
Edited Date: 2017-05-18 05:23 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-05-17 11:54 pm (UTC)
freezer: (Objection!)
From: [personal profile] freezer
Something would have happened. It always does.

Yeah but... As cursed as Matt's seed is, how many of those "somethings" came about as a direct result of his being Daredevil?

Date: 2017-05-18 01:08 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Arguably several. But in the real world, thinking "something bad will always happen because it always does" isn't a meta wink. It's a pathology.

Date: 2017-05-18 12:15 am (UTC)
commodus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] commodus
Honestly, they should have just gave Mephisto a ring and had him sort the whole mess out.
He's a fair-minded kind of guy, always honours his arrangements, real salt of the earth type.
Edited Date: 2017-05-18 12:28 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-05-19 12:52 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Katie Cook Doug)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Indeed
Edited Date: 2017-05-19 12:57 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-05-19 01:19 pm (UTC)
commodus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] commodus
No joke, that's probably my favourite comic of all time.
More stories need to end with Mephisto patching together all the loose ends and continuity errors for his own personal amusement.

Date: 2017-05-19 02:33 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Since Mephisto isn't so much a demon, but the embodied "Evil" of all mankind, it even makes a vague sort of sense; Sometimes he's the evil, sometimes he's the mankind.

Date: 2017-05-18 01:12 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Now that's settled, we can find out what Matt's big "End crime in New York forever" plan is. Hopefully not something Reed Richards considered, but decided was "something Victor would do when he was in a bad mood."

Date: 2017-05-18 01:11 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Honestly, I hope his "end New York crime" plan is as dumb an idea as that sounds, because this run has been presenting Matt's path from living openly to living Milleristically as a result of a set of GOOD decisions, and, um, I disagree with that premise.
Edited Date: 2017-05-18 01:12 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-05-18 01:53 am (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
The Purple Man and a derivative of Doctor Doom's psycho-prism's honestly the most elegant way this could've been pulled off.

Date: 2017-05-18 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
This is true.

Date: 2017-05-18 06:32 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
This makes as much sense as the Iron Man mindwipe we saw in one of his annuals. Nobody writes down information like this? Nobody has data saved on their computers or phones or whatever? It's all in everybody's head? You'd think Kingpin would have a Murdock file where he has a list of every little thing he could use against him under right circumstances.

It's just bull. At least when they put Superman's identity back in the closet they had a decent way out. This just doesn't fly with me. I'm glad I quit buying when I did.

Date: 2017-05-18 12:09 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
They way I understand it, the mindwipe doesn't simply erase your memory, they believe it is a fact that matt is not Daredevil and/or unable to piece together the information by themselves.

Every article or piece of information that says otherwise MUST be wrong because Matt is not Daredevil.
It's... Really non-sensical when you think about it but there you go

Date: 2017-05-18 12:21 pm (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
Yeah, this manner of mindwipe reminds me when Hal Jordan (as The Spectre) wiped everyone's mind of Flash/Wally West's identity. Including Wally, temporarily. All Wally had to do was unmask in front of them and his friends and loved ones would remember all their history.
Edited Date: 2017-05-18 12:22 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-05-18 03:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
AS it was explained, they simply ignore it out of hand. So really, it's an ongoing thing, not a one time mind wipe

Date: 2017-05-18 04:23 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Though i'd argue she was properly paranoid.

Also

Date: 2017-05-18 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
IIRC, the Mandarin did right the information down, an Madame Masque had her memories backed up constantly, so it wasn't 100% effective. More than that, his ID as Tony Stark wasn't well known. It was Tony using a nuke to destroy a fridge, and we know how that goes ;)

Do you watch Doctor Who?

Date: 2017-05-18 05:51 pm (UTC)
deh_tommy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] deh_tommy
If sov, I think that works like a Perception Filter; you see the details, but just fail to properly notice, register or give them much attention as if they were something you could casually walk by or glance over.

Re: Do you watch Doctor Who?

Date: 2017-05-19 05:06 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
I quit watching Doctor Who years ago. Moffat is a lousy producers/writer with a limiated skill set. His Doctor who is garbage and Sherlock got old real quick.

Date: 2017-05-19 01:00 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
In Iron Man's case, Tony later finds out that the Mandarin for one remembers, because he happened to write the information down in his pen and paper journal (Mandarin has a diary, who knew?) and that information was not erased by the handy computer virus, nor affected by the psi-spell.

Here the Purple Kids definitely say that even if someone HAS written it down, if they re-read it they STILL won't make the connection.

This seems to be using much the same approach as taken in making Dick Grayson's identity as Nightwing a secret again thanks to Spyral's Hypnos Tech.

Date: 2017-05-18 12:19 pm (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
Like others here, I don't agree with how Kirsten is tossed to the curb, but I like the idea of Kilgrave's children doing the mindwipe to everyone. Unlike Mephisto and Spider-Man, it keeps Matt in character because he didn't take any deal with the devil to do it. And he also has to deal with the consequences, for good and bad. And let's face it, part of Matt's character is that he makes a LOT of dumb, irrational decisions. He's a very flawed character and it's one of the things I find interesting about him. It's one of the reason's he's my second favourite superhero.

But yeah, tossing Kirsten to the curb like that? Not cool.

Out of curiosity, how IS Soule's run in general? The last Daredevil stuff I read was Waid's run because that ended on a pretty satisfying note for me. Especially since the previous two runs, Bendis and Brubaker, both ended on cliffhangers (prison, leading The Hand). I'd been reading Daredevil since Kevin Smith's story and the way Waid's run ended, it felt like a good jumping off point for me. What I'd skimmed of Soule's stuff didn't really do it for me.

Date: 2017-05-18 08:05 pm (UTC)
informationgeek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] informationgeek
I've only read the first volume and my assessment is the same as yours, it doesn't do much for me. It's kind of... there. I read it and felt nothing after reading it, sort of like a lot of Marvel's comics I read recently. Yep, that was certainly something.

Date: 2017-05-19 12:13 am (UTC)
freezer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] freezer
Like others here, I don't agree with how Kirsten is tossed to the curb

At least she gets to walk away, alive and intact. I think Natasha is the only other of Matt's paramours who got to do that.

Date: 2017-05-19 11:44 am (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
This is true. That she walked away more or less unscathed is a massive achievement for being an ex of Matt's.

Date: 2017-05-24 04:26 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
goddamnit Matt!

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