starwolf_oakley: (Default)
[personal profile] starwolf_oakley posting in [community profile] scans_daily
I put out a request for stories showing the friendship between Hawkman and the Atom. After the cut is a page from HAWKMAN #5 where Green Arrow talks about the friendship between Carter Hall and Ray Palmer.
Story by James Robinson and Geoff Johns. Artwork by Rags Morales.



This was about two years before IDENTITY CRISIS.

arrowhawk5.jpeg

That's Kendra interrupting.

Ollie is there because someone dressed like Green Arrow is killing "fat cats" in St. Roche. Also, he annoys Carter about his obsession with Kendra.

So, Carter Hall is cultured and sophisticated, but Hawkman is a savage brute? Interesting.

That's a picture of the Satellite Era JLA, only it has Aquaman and Firestorm.

Date: 2017-07-03 10:30 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Well SOMEONE needs to call Carter on his obsession with Kendra. It's creepy.

Date: 2017-07-03 10:37 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shadur
DC's Legends of Tomorrow actually touched on that a few times and did a reasonable job of mentioning the nuance.

Can't go into further details because spoilers.

Date: 2017-07-03 07:26 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
I was mostly annoyed that - as with the comics - they sacrificed Kendra's relationship with a much better guy so she can have her doomed relationship with Carter.

And then they decided to tie in Vandal Savage because why not have one of the worst heroes fight one of the worst villians?
Edited Date: 2017-07-03 07:29 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-07-04 12:10 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
I normally quite like Vandal Savage. A genius immortal caveman is an amazing idea for a bad guy.

The Legends of Tomorrow version, however, was frickin' terrible. The last thing Kendra needed was another creepy obsessed guy.

Date: 2017-07-04 04:10 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
My problem with a lot of "Mastermind" villains is that they often don't accomplish much and what they do is generally just them taking credit for something someone else did (like most Norman Osborn stories that aren't about chucking blondes off bridges or Savage claiming to be various historical conquerors*). Savage is even worse because he's had all of human history to build power and he has very little to show for it. If he couldn't take over the world in the past then what chance does he have in a world with people like Flash answer Firestorm in it?

*"What do you mean the sculptures and paintings of Ceasar and Napoleon look nothing like me? Um, I meant to say I was an advisor to those guys. Yeah, that's the ticket"

Date: 2017-07-04 11:40 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
-Savage is even worse because he's had all of human history to build power and he has very little to show for it-

It'd be great if just once, when Vandal did his "I was [famous historical person], and I [caused famous historical event]", someone would just call him on his BS, and say "you didn't do any of those things".

Date: 2017-07-04 09:58 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Actually in that Justice Society mini that DC did in the early Nineties involving the living constellations Hawkman said point blank he was never "name escapes me at the moment" when Vandal was doing his speech claiming to have once been a famous Egyption figure that Carter would have known in a past life.

Date: 2017-07-04 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
Except that we see that Savage does in fact hold an immense level of personal power and influence. He's got billions to toss around, countless devoted followers and all kinds of advanced tech. Hell, even Lex was scared of him.

Date: 2017-07-04 11:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
That was Cornell, right? That was weirdly out of place in a run that had Lex making deals with Death. Lex isn't intimidated by Superman or one of the Endless but he is by a narcissistic caveman?
Edited Date: 2017-07-04 11:55 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-07-05 12:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
No, it was in Secret Six.

Lex came to realize he would have to take on or take out the other villains out there if he wanted to be top dog. That's why he strong armed Scandal into the team, as a means of dealing with her father, if the time came.

Savage has displayed exceptional cunning, resourcefulness and ruthlessness. Anyone in the DCU not scared of him is an idiot

Date: 2017-07-04 10:44 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Yeah, Savage already does the historical namedropping thing too much in the comics, and the Legends version just ramped that up to 11.

Date: 2017-07-04 02:33 am (UTC)
chalicother: Chalicothere (Default)
From: [personal profile] chalicother
I was mostly annoyed that - as with the comics - they sacrificed Kendra's relationship with a much better guy so she can have her doomed relationship with Carter.

My biggest problem with this...is that they have Kendra go on a tirade of episodes about defying fate and choosing her own destiny, but then ends up with Karter.....without having interaction with Karter.

I love stories in which people say screw destiny, but then the story goes back to it, negated everything she said. Heck, what was the point of the past Kendra telling Present Kendra she couldn't fight fate, and her trying to. Doesn't help this version of Karter is not at all interesting , but lets keep on trying to make this be the selling point of his character. It was just ridiculous.

Date: 2017-07-03 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
I'd forgotten that. Say what you will about Kevin Smith's GA run but he isn't wrong there.

Date: 2017-07-04 11:35 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Definitely an "Even a broken clock is right twice a day" moment.

Date: 2017-07-04 01:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
The problem with that statement though, is that we know for a fact that Kendra is in fact Carter's reincarnated wife. It's something all involved know to be true.

Given that he's spent thousands of years and lives with her, I really don't think its too surprising he has a hard time letting go.

Date: 2017-07-03 03:42 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
I recall both Aquaman and Firestorm being members when the team was headquartered in the satellite, though I confess I don't recall any stories where both were present.

Date: 2017-07-05 04:58 am (UTC)
glprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] glprime
"Guys, get up here for five minutes! We need to take a team picture!"

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