cyberghostface: (Joker)
[personal profile] cyberghostface posting in [community profile] scans_daily
 

“Seeing Gotham for the first time with clear eyes, his psychosis now cured, he starts to understand the absurdity of vigilantism and how Batman's actions are only contributing to Gotham's endless crime cycle. Joker sets out to beat Batman by becoming the White Knight that Gotham really needs.” -- Sean Murphy

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Date: 2017-07-08 09:06 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
No

I am so damn sick of writers. Batman is either the glue that holds the entire DCU together or someone who actually makes the worst place in it worse

Date: 2017-07-08 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jeremyp
Do you have a preferred portrayal of him? He seems like a character that is easy to take to extremes.

Date: 2017-07-08 10:04 pm (UTC)
informationgeek: (PinkiePie)
From: [personal profile] informationgeek
Not sure about the story, but damn if Sean Murphy's artwork isn't a beauty to look at. For those who want to see more of it, I did posts on Punk Rock Jesus a few years back. Give those a look!

Date: 2017-07-08 10:08 pm (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
Sounds like an original take on the mythos. I'm willing to give it a chance.

Date: 2017-07-09 03:57 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
On the one hand, I hate this. I'm incredibly sick and tired of the "BUT WHAT IF THE HERO IS THE REAL VILLAIN??? takes. May they all die in a fire.

On the other hand... this appears to be an AU. And the whole point of AUs is to go wild with all sorts of takes on the characters. It feels sorta wrong to say "you shouldn't do that!" about an AU.

Date: 2017-07-09 06:20 am (UTC)
ap0cryphal: Gap Toothed Smile (Default)
From: [personal profile] ap0cryphal
"In the comic mini-series' alternate-reality, it's the Joker—cured of his insanity—who sees that Bruce Wayne is just another part of the city's vicious cycle of crime and sets out to stop him."

So, elseworlds, basically - so why not. Whatever else happens, the art will be really good.

Date: 2017-07-09 10:51 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
So, another round of 'Batman isn't really helping anything.'

Sane Joker trying to redeem himself could be interesting, but honestly, it's got a lot of work to do to get past what I see as in incredibly flawed concept.

Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-09 02:55 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
A story about a redeemed villain who decides to use the legal system to take down Batman called White Knight... And said villain is the Joker.

http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/batman-twoface-1920x1080.png

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-09 06:10 pm (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
I'm not sure if your posting that image is meant to be some sort of "WTF?" meme, or a suggestion that Two-Face would be the more logical choice for such a character. If the latter, well, that'd also be a rather predictable choice, wouldn't it? Seems to me casting a reformed Joker in that role is a much more original idea.

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-09 08:31 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
the idea isn't original at all, and if you want to do some sort of political angle I think it is a terrible time to be writing this

Batman is a rich man who actually does things that benefit the poor and people who need help and he's about to be set against a mass murderer who's going to use a media campaign to set the public against him

The world NEEDS rich people who are actually willing to hlp and it NEEDS for people to no longer be manipulated to act against their interests

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-10 04:11 am (UTC)
mesmiranda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
The world NEEDS rich people who are actually willing to hlp and it NEEDS for people to no longer be manipulated to act against their interests

I tend to be something of a filthy damn commie socialist, so I'm expecting to get flamed for this: the world needs rich people who are willing to be mildly to significantly less rich.

It's kind of the problem with Batman stories: Bruce does do a lot of philanthropic work, for Gotham and the world. But a comic book about a guy doing paperwork and signing cheques and organizing relief efforts is pretty boring, so you get the costume and the gadgets and the awesome car/plane/submarine/spaceship, I'm sure. And ultimately it ends up being a story about a billionaire who uses a lot of money to beat up criminals and mobsters because his parents were murdered as a kid, while all the charity and social work happens off-screen, and readers are left wondering--not entirely unreasonably--"why is this rich guy using all his money to beat up working-class street criminals?"

I agree with a lot of other people that Batman has been overanalyzed to death, in a lot of ways, but "Bruce Wayne and the concept of Batman is infallible" is not something I subscribe to--nor do I honestly think we should, judging from all the writers.

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-10 10:58 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
what makes you think most of the villains are working class?

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-10 03:33 pm (UTC)
mesmiranda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
Well, not his Rogues Gallery--a lot of them do come from working-class backgrounds, but all of them probably have enough minions, gadgets and weapons to qualify as well-off. I meant more the street-level criminals--muggers, thieves, people committing assault--that the Batfamily takes care of on a regular basis.

I do think the point stands, though: off-screen we get vaguely-defined philanthropic work, and on-screen we get Batman spending more and more time, money and attention on an arms race with the likes of Joker, Catwoman, the Riddler, and so on.

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-09 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
I just wanted to post a picture of him looking sad. Shockingly hard to find a decent one.

Honestly, I just thought it was really weird it wasn't him, but since you mention it, yes, I do think he would be more logical choice. It's predictable because it makes sense, it fits and has not been done before. Using Joker for this is "original", but in a way having Bruce marry a reformed enemy of his and making it Scarecrow. Except Crane hasn't been constantly ever-present (whether you agree that Joker is over-exposed or not, you can't complain about a lack of presence) and made to look better by undermining other characters and Catwoman hasn't been constantly screwed over and misused by lazy writers (kay, no more than anybody else).

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-09 10:30 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
As far as Two-Face reaction faces go, it's hard to top Kate Beaton's for any kind of shock.

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-09 06:21 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
To be fair, if this story was done with him, we'd spend half of it thinking " So when's he gonna relapse? "

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-09 09:37 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
And we're not with the Joker??

Re: Let me get this straight

Date: 2017-07-09 10:28 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
We've had multiple stories about him being helped in some way, re-attaining some of what he was as just Harvey Dent, and then ending up back where he was because of circumstances and himself.

We'll always think, on some level, " .. Two-Face- forever! "

In contrast, the Joker hasn't had any stories about being " cured " that didn't involve some outside force (mental or chemical or physical trauma), that didn't make it clear he was going to revert back to what he was.

Nothing's yet described how the Joker's going to end up in this state in this Elseworlds of a miniseries. It feels more likely that he could stay that way throughout the whole thing.

It doesn't yet seem like " Will he become what he was again? " is one of the questions this story wants its readers to ask.

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