superboyprime: (Sun)
[personal profile] superboyprime posting in [community profile] scans_daily

"DEADPOOL has by far one of my favorite tie-in stories, with huge repercussions for the character - Gerry Duggan & Matteo Lolli crushing it." - Nick Spencer

"His best friend’s name is Hydra Bob, so if anyone would be comfortable with a status quo shift it would be Deadpool." - Gerry Duggan

Date: 2017-07-13 02:10 pm (UTC)
commodus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] commodus
A book burning. Wonderful.
This whole thing is just depressing.

Date: 2017-07-13 02:44 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
but remember: Hydra are not REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY nazis, they TOTALLY have nothing to do with Nazis or WWII or anything!

Date: 2017-07-13 03:26 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (captain america sunburst)
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Yeah, book burnings are great symbolism for what HYDRA really is. It's just so casual, another bookstore being ransacked and a bonfire burning up the 'bad' books. Sheesh!

Date: 2017-07-13 03:44 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
well, it's funny...

Here's what I mean...

main marvel (at least the dude running the main Secret Empire thing)... is trying to say, No no no no no, Hydra aren't Nazi's, they were FASCIST. they just aligned with the Nazi party because they were useful to their goals.

every other comic: "yeah totally not Nazis" writes about Concentration camps, book burnings, Hitler Youth, Underground Railroads, Secret pacts with countries that normally would fight against them but are being placed in alliance only to prevent fighting a war on two fronts....

Date: 2017-07-13 04:46 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Either Marvel's editors are doing a shit job, or "Hydra aren't Nazis" is a just a sloppy attempt to avoid being criticized for turning anti-Nazi character created by two Jewish men into a Nazi agent.

Or both.

Date: 2017-07-13 05:25 pm (UTC)
laughing_tree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughing_tree
Concentration camps, book burnings, Hitler Youth, Underground Railroads, Secret pacts with countries that normally would fight against them but are being placed in alliance only to prevent fighting a war on two fronts

Literally every one of those things came from the "the dude running the main Secret Empire thing."

Date: 2017-07-13 05:47 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
i think that highlights the insanity of them trying to argue it's NOT the same as Nazis, when they are literally ticking the boxes

Date: 2017-07-13 05:48 pm (UTC)
laughing_tree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughing_tree
I assume they mean Hydra aren't literal Nazis, which is a separate thing from metaphorical ones.

Date: 2017-07-13 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
It's not like any of these things are exclusively Nazi. The United States has had its fair share of book burning groups in their time.

Maybe I'm lost here, but what sets Nazis apart from every other fascist dictators other than the coordinated extermination attempt on "lesser" people? Not even slightly trying to justify any horrible people here, I just don't see the logical disconnect between "they're not nazis" and "they're doing what fascist governments do when they take over."

Date: 2017-07-13 06:25 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
the biggest factor here, is that Hydra started as a "Splinter group" of Nazi sciences division. Nazi's and Hydra have an almost synonymous from the very beginning. that's part of what's making it hard for people to separate them.

Date: 2017-07-13 07:08 pm (UTC)
laughing_tree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughing_tree
Hydra started as a "Splinter group" of Nazi sciences division

Only in the films, no? In the comics, they started out a Red Scare menace.

Granted, that's just a continuity and history thing. In terms of the real world, the films are way more in people's conscious, for obvious reasons, which makes the separation harder, yeah...

Date: 2017-07-13 09:13 pm (UTC)
rbenchley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rbenchley
Only in the films, no? In the comics, they started out a Red Scare menace.

Comics too. The Supreme Hydra from the first SHIELD stories in Strange Tales was Baron Von Strucker, Nick Fury's old foe from WWII. Silver Age Marvel was a pretty even split between Communist menaces (Mandarin, Crimson Dynamo, Titanium Man, Radioactive Man, Red Ghost, etc.) and remnants of the Nazis (Strucker, Red Skull, Zola, Baron Zemo, Hate Monger, etc.).

Date: 2017-07-13 09:27 pm (UTC)
laughing_tree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughing_tree
In the comics, their original leader was an American businessman named Arnold Brown. They were a Red Scare-adjacent SPECTRE type group. They eventually retconned Strucker as the *actual* leader behind the scenes but even then they were about as Nazi as the Masters of Evil are Nazis because their leader was Zemo. They weren't the Nazis' science division, which is from the films.

In the decades since, how Nazi they are's gone back and forth depending on story and writer.
Edited Date: 2017-07-13 09:41 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-07-13 04:58 pm (UTC)
tigerkaya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tigerkaya
If it's any conciliation Marvel gave a press release on ABC news essentially apologizing to fans and actively spoiling the event. The fact Disney is stepping in and slapping Marvel just makes this all the more hilarious and well deserved. Hopefully this event will be retcon and Spencer can start looking for another job in Image again.

Date: 2017-07-13 03:59 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (Outrage)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
The "best" part of this is how the overwhelming majority of Americans just roll over and let this happen.

Particularly given that it turns the WWII narrative on it's head. Do you realize how invested American culture is in the Allied victory over the Nazis? There are still millions of living WWII veterans, for Pete's sake.

This isn't one of those suspension of disbelief things (like, "Why do people still live in NYC after so many disasters?") that you have to hand wave to allow the universe to operate. The reaction of everyday citizens should be a huge part of this story, and there is no country in the Western World (including Germany) that would roll over for a Nazi takeover and just accept the WWII script-flip, even if (-especially if-) Captain America revealed himself to be a Nazi all along.

This event is ludicrous at it's very roots.
Edited Date: 2017-07-13 04:00 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-07-13 04:15 pm (UTC)
featheredserpent: (Default)
From: [personal profile] featheredserpent
...and how many Americans are currently just rolling over and letting Russia walk away with our free & fair election system?

Date: 2017-07-13 06:26 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Going by that most of them voted for Hillary and Trump's current approval ratings are historically low...

Date: 2017-07-15 09:12 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (Default)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
I would point out that the fact that you know about the collusion with Russia and the neo-Nazi involvement with the current administration (which is not unique to the Trump administration, but symptomatic of the decade and change old tradition of the GOP refusing to alienate any potential conservative voting bloc) is indicative of the fact that people care about it and are not rolling over. The news media broadcasting stories critical of the administration are not being shut down, and no reporters are being imprisoned in reeducation camps.

There are rather a lot of people who care, but the nature of the government and the fact that Trump's party holds the legislature means that there is precious little common folk can do.

So they are protesting. They are mobilizing. They are spreading information. Better to scream and gnash your teeth in impotent rage and be heard than to sit in silence.

In Marvel/Hydra's America, there is no partisan divide. There is no mobilized populace. Everyone just collectively accepts the New Truth, save for a rag tag band of heroes and the tiny minority of sympathetic people who help them. I believe in flying men and space gods more than I believe that people in the free world would take the news that the Nazis were right all along with a shrug of acceptance.

Date: 2017-07-13 05:53 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
You are right, but to be fair most fiction seems to operate under the idea that the most heavily armed and vaguely psychopathic civilian population on the planet will just roll over in the face of a military coup.

By all rights the moment the duly elected President was deposed the US should have immediately descended into armed factions, civil war, and random insurgency groups. I kinda chalk it up to most people not being able to imagine what a true 1st World insurgency would look like.

The sheer number of engineers and ex-military walking around that could single handily kill hundreds of people with a single trip to Home Depot is kinda terrifying.

Date: 2017-07-15 09:18 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (Brimley)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
I do not envy Marvel. They have always been the brand that deals with real world issues, and one of their flagpole characters is a nationalist hero, but they can't touch real world politics. To many creative types are liberal, and would not stand for a conservative message, and too many toxic internet nerds are conservative, and would not stand for a liberal political message. These are the people who get pissed off that there are more female heroes in more prominent roles, for Pete's sake.

Then they have to handle Captain America, who does not stand for progressivism or conservatism, but for American Ideals. The editorial staff can't seem to conceive of an America that is not politicized, so they put Cap against Nazis again and again, or they kill him for a while, or they turn him evil. It's been a long time since we have seen a good Steve Rogers story.

Date: 2017-07-14 09:31 am (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
After their past with concentration camps, eugenics and white supremacy? After decades of passive acceptance of undue foreign aggression, violent intervention, war crimes, coup backing, torture, Guantamo? With death penalty still a thing in 2017 and no one does anything about it? After watching the political news for the last few months? I don't have the slightest doubt that present-day U.S. could go full It Can’t Happen Here in a matter of months. The only unreasonable thing in this story is that fascism came clad in green rather than "wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross", as the aphorism goes. But then again, with the record that Marvel civilians have? I bet they'd be happy to wear AIM bee masks to bed, if it would get some comeuppance on the muties.

Date: 2017-07-14 11:20 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
so you believe that because not everyone exactly shares your views they would be cool with a nazi/fascist takeover of the country?

Date: 2017-07-15 09:47 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (Zillapalm)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
First, -every- European culture (include the US, Canada, and Australia under that banner) has a history of concentration camps, eugenics, and white supremacy. The question is whether or not you are about that sort of thing as a culture (as opposed to a lunatic fringe) -today-.

As for the rest, there are many people up in arms about all of these issues. that our current legislature does nothing about these issues when the public clearly cares a great deal about them is part of why the approval rating for the legislature has been at an unprecedented low for the past ten years. Nothing is being done, and Americans are bent the fuck out of shape about that fact.

As for the death penalty, 18 out of 50 states ban it, with a third of those having banned it within the past ten years. It is a state's rights issue, so a federal ban is not possible without an constitutional amendment, and the idea of gathering enough unity to pass any kind of amendment in the current political atmosphere is unrealistic to say the least. Suffice it to say that the American public is mixed in regards to capital punishment.

The important thing to consider here is that the face of America is not the body. The squeaky wheels get the media attention. Most Christians are kind, loving, charitable people who who don't want to make spiritual imperatives into secular laws. Most conservatives are not racist hillbillies. Most people are good people.

Even the example of the last election is misleading because, as abominable as Trump was and is, the DNC put up the -worst possible candidate- against him. In a cultural climate that is bone tired of old school party politicians, they nominated the most archetypal party politician you could imagine. For many, as much as they hated Trump, the only person they could possibly hate more was Hillary Clinton. Many Democrats hate her as well, to the point where the DNC had to get up to shenanigans to shove her down the collective throat.

A lot of the votes that Trump got were not for him, they were -against- Clinton, who is nearly as odious a figure as he is. Other conservatives were concerned with the absence the death of Scalia left in the SCOTUS, and the fact that two, maybe THREE seats might vacate in the next four years. A Democratic president would have meant a liberal Supreme Court for a generation, and while I personally find that a best-case scenario, some people were so dedicated to conservative ideals that they held their noses and voted for Trump.

And he -still- lost the popular vote!

So while it's tough to contradict that that America is not having the best time right now, suggesting that Americans would roll over for a fascist regime, -especially- a literal Nazi regime, stretches credibility to breaking.

Date: 2017-07-13 04:31 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
What part of "Please don't make my super-suit green" did they not understand?

Date: 2017-07-13 05:38 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Hey, The Mount from Peter David's Incredible Hulk run. The Marvel Universe has a LOT of abandoned high-tech headquarters.

Date: 2017-07-15 12:48 am (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
Imagine the deal you could get on them in the current housing market!

Date: 2017-07-13 05:40 pm (UTC)
shakalooloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shakalooloo
So, has Bob shown up in this yet?

Date: 2017-07-13 08:50 pm (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
He was in a pretty lackluster short piece over in whatever the "anthology" limited series is called. Secret Empire: Brave New World, I think.

It was meh.

Date: 2017-07-14 01:52 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
First glance at the cover I thought Deadpool was rubbing his nipples.

Date: 2017-07-14 01:30 pm (UTC)
sir_razorback: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sir_razorback
Are you sure he's not?

Date: 2017-07-15 01:06 am (UTC)
mesmiranda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda

I mean, no comic book character should be endorsing this event. (Seriously, Steve and Tony and Wanda and Storm should just be like, "nope, screw you, writers, we're sitting over here with chips and cookies and marathoning that new GLOW show.")

But Deadpool? Deadpool, of all people, is going all with this? I'm serious, I genuinely don't understand this here.


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