Date: 2017-07-13 06:15 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
LOEG 2009 had a similar comment about magic trains by Mina and Orlando.

"This is like a child's idea of how trains work."

Date: 2017-07-13 06:21 pm (UTC)
michaelsaint: (Default)
From: [personal profile] michaelsaint
Wait, is Sam still Captain America??

He does not have the shield or his Captain America costume and everyone is just calling him Sam, but the title of the book still has 'Captain America' in it. Sam even says "while I was Captain America" in this story

Date: 2017-07-13 06:23 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aperturedreams
He's not at the moment, he quit just before Secret Empire, though he looks to be putting on the costume again soon in a few issues.

Date: 2017-07-13 07:16 pm (UTC)
coldfury: (Default)
From: [personal profile] coldfury
And then taking it right off thanks to Marvel Legacy. *sigh*

Date: 2017-07-13 07:31 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
HYDRA content censors also demanded the expunging of Homeland.

(Nobody really noticed that one.)

Date: 2017-07-13 09:30 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
What's the point of putting Tony Stark in a coma if you're just going to replace him with HoloTony?

Date: 2017-07-13 09:35 pm (UTC)
freezer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] freezer
And have him be an even bigger d-bag than Meat!Tony?

Date: 2017-07-14 01:00 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Well, if you follow some Youtube video producers it goes to the emasculation of Tony Stark when he was replaced by Riri Williams. It's an interesting theory. Iron Man is no longer a man but a hologram, he's been replaced by a teenage girl, and all the principle characters are all women now. The question is, has this change been good for sales?

Answer: No. According to Comichron the last issue of the previous series sold, 43,888 issues. The first issue of the new series where Riri had her debut sold an impressive (In today's numbers, anyway), 97,713 and since then has had an almost consistent decline, down to 28,226 in May. People don't want a comic with the name Iron Man on the cover and no real Iron Man in the pages within.

Date: 2017-07-14 04:03 am (UTC)
glprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] glprime
So, like, all I'm getting from these kinds of tirades is actually, people get interested in a "new" series, then interest quickly dies off (especially if there's not much original/engaging writing). I really don't swing much one way or the other on the legacy characters, they're fine by me, I just like a consistent story vs too many shake-ups. If you keep hitting the reset button, how am I to follow a series?

Date: 2017-07-14 04:13 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
The problem is there are way, way too many legacy characters at Marvel these days. And in regards to Riri, nobody really had a good chance to get to know her very well before she was shoe-horned into Stark's shoes.

Again I can't take credit for this, but somebody pointed out that Riri-debut was marred by the Civil War II mess and her origins got lost in the shuffle. I think a better idea would have been if Tony had taken her and Mary Jane on as sidekicks because his new enemies had proven too nasty for him to handle on his own. But it seems Marvel has something against white cis males. Thor, Stark, Logan, Rogers, Banner, Bobby Drake, if they aren't getting sidelined their characters are being assassinated or their sexual orientation is magically retconned. I'm shocked Clint/Hawkeye hasn't been drop kicked off a skyscraper.

Date: 2017-07-14 09:17 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
But it seems Marvel has something against white cis males. Thor, Stark, Logan, Rogers, Banner, Bobby Drake,

White CIS males are still not exactly a minority group in any given bunch of Marvel heroes.

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Date: 2017-07-14 03:21 pm (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
I've really got to disagree with you there, I don't think the conclusion to draw from Riri's rough start is "Marvel hates cis white males," so much as "too many events and not enough in-book development."

And seriously, as a cis white guy myself, I don't feel like Marvel is persecuting cis white guys by noticing that there are other interesting character ideas out there. I see Tony Stark's coma less as emasculation-from-on-high and more as some of his many, many chickens coming home to roost.

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Date: 2017-07-16 12:42 am (UTC)
freezer: (Objection!)
From: [personal profile] freezer
But it seems Marvel has something against white cis males.

Let's see...

Thor,

Has his own separate book. Not the first time he's been relplaced.

Stark,

Not the first time he's been replaced. This time, it's by Riri, AI!Stark... And Doom.

Logan,

Replaced by a older version of himself.

Rogers

Replaced for, what, the fourth time? Fifth?

Banner,

So you have less of a problem with Banner being killed in such a stupid manner than with Cho taking up the mantle of The Hulk?

Bobby Drake,

Give you that one. Not because making Iceman gay is an inherently bad idea, but the execution was, IMHO, crap.

Date: 2017-07-14 04:07 am (UTC)
coldfury: (Default)
From: [personal profile] coldfury
Any theory that talks about an 'emasculation' of a character is not a theory worth talking about.

Date: 2017-07-14 04:14 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Why is that? Stark's physical body is rendered inert, impotent if you will. And now he's a sexless hologram who acts as Riri's cheerleader along with the other main characters in the title, which all happen to be women.

Date: 2017-07-14 06:52 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
I'll add to coldfury quite insightful and completely justified rule of thumb with a few more: any theory that complains about the "persecution", "genocide", or "censoring" of cis/white/male/Christian/American/etc. characters isn't worth discussing; any theory that complains about the "shoehorning/quotas/making gay" of non-cis/white/etc. is also not worth discussing; any argument that resorts to dictionary definitions isn't worth discussing; and, in the specific case of Big Two superhero comics, any theory that tries to argue for the immutable status quo isn't worth discussing.

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Date: 2017-07-14 06:41 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
I'll be the hell sure to not follow some Youtube video producers, then.

Date: 2017-07-14 07:27 pm (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
That's certainly your right. If you don't want to listen to any views that may challenge your preconceptions you go right on ahead and stay inside your echo chamber.

Date: 2017-07-14 05:16 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
To be fair, in Riri's book, A.I. Tony wasn't treated as a replacement Tony. Just Riri's answer to the Jarvis and Friday A.I.s

Honestly, i just think Spencer wasn't aware that Tony would be in a coma for Secret Empire. It's the only way this makes sense to me, especially since everyone treats him as if he's the real Tony.

Date: 2017-07-14 07:32 pm (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
You mean the editors and writers weren't all on the same page at a comic company producing ninety different titles a month? Shocking. :D

You could be right, I don't know. I do think that with this Legacy business and the other non-Event they advertised that Marvel's editorial staff is scrambling to do something that works and a lot can fall between the cracks. They're adding pages to later issues of Secret Empire and charging an extra buck for one of the titles as a result so you can see that like Secret War and Civil War II they are coming across like amateurs. They even had typos in an issue. How often does that happen at the House of Ideas? It shows there are a lot of inexperienced people on their staff.

Date: 2017-07-13 09:40 pm (UTC)
freezer: (Objection!)
From: [personal profile] freezer
Two things just occurred to me about Hydra!Steve's takeover:

A) How is a global shield thrown up by SHIELD not considered an act of war by the rest of the G20, if not the entire UN?

B) Wouldn't Steve up and hijacking America mandate invasion by the rest of NATO?

Or did I miss the part where HYDRA took over Earth, not just America?

Date: 2017-07-13 10:59 pm (UTC)
shakalooloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shakalooloo
But it was Cap's decision alone to activate it, though? There was no committee vote or anything?

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Date: 2017-07-15 10:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Who does SHIELD report to this week anyway? The US? UN? NATO? No one? It's always been really inconsistent.

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