Date: 2017-07-13 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
So... this writer has... pretty much no idea how to write Rogue, huh?
(I suppose at some point she was all "Ah cain't touch no-one!")

-"Ah mess up every team ah touch."-
Now, it has been a while since I have properly followed an X-Book, and my knowledge of Rogue is not at 100% buuuut...
Sure don't recall much instances of Rogue messing up many teams.
Okay, that one she led back in '07 went to crap, but that was more because... y'know, letting Lady Mastermind and Mystique on the team. Which was never going to turn out well in any situation.

Date: 2017-07-13 11:54 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Yea, she's normally good on a team and not a bad team leader either.

Date: 2017-07-14 12:59 am (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
She might be top 5 leaders in the X-men. Which considering I thought Wolverine was joking when he promoted her to leadership says a lot.

Date: 2017-07-14 03:18 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
that might be the point.

the whole time she's doubting herself, she managed to lead herself and two villains in a fight against a rock monster... but she never noticed.

Date: 2017-07-13 11:54 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Who's that with the tail?

Date: 2017-07-14 12:02 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
That is probably the latest version of The Scorpion, Carmlla Black.

Date: 2017-07-14 12:16 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Nah, its Scorpia (Elaine Coll).

Date: 2017-07-14 12:46 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Never heard of her. Then again, I had to wicki Black's bio so it shows how out of touch I am in regards to Spider Man villains. :)

Date: 2017-07-14 02:27 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Perfectly understandable. Coll has maybe half as many apearances as Black and has significantly less characterization (even though she's been around since the mid 90s )

Date: 2017-07-14 02:47 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
I though of her, but Carmilla's not a villain, so I think zachbeacon's right.

Date: 2017-07-14 03:50 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
Carmilla actually was a villain in her last appearance.

She was a SHIELD agent who went undercover with HYDRA, but then Norman Osborn dismantled the agency and replaced it with HAMMER and Carmilla was left in the cold.

So for some reason she became a mercenary and fought Spider-Man.

Date: 2017-07-14 04:39 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
She wasn't a villain then either and during Dark Reign she fought with Gargan!Venom.

Date: 2017-07-14 04:52 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
She fought Gargan!Venom before Dark Reign, when he was with the Thunderbolts. During Dark Reign she showed up in the Initiative as a deep cover SHIELD agent in Hydra

She fought Spider-Man as a mercenary during the Gauntlet which was about a year or two later. She was working for the Kravinoffs

Date: 2017-07-14 05:28 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
She battled Gargan because they were making a movie based on his life and didn't want someone else using his "brand".

And again she wasn't a villain and her (very)few appearances after haven't treated her as a villain.

Date: 2017-07-14 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
Her last appearance was working as a mercenary who temporarily depowered Spider-Man and worked for the Kravinoffs (who let's remember at this point are planning to kidnap and murder Madame Web, Mattie Franklin, Arachne and Arana in some stupid sacrificial ritual. They're successful with murdering the former two. )

Date: 2017-07-19 04:18 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
That wasn't her last appearance and she wasn't the one who kidnapped the Spider-Women, so that's not on her.

Date: 2017-07-19 05:45 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
She was party to their plan. Her contributions to the Gauntlet, no matter how little, helped overall.

And what appearances has she had after that? A cameo in Young Avengers that amounts to nothing?

Date: 2017-07-19 06:56 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
No she wasn't, she wasn't involved in their plans at all. She just have them Gargan's old suit, but she wasn't involved in kidnapping the Spider-Women or in killing them. In fact, there was not evidence that she knew what they were planning.

And that cameo amounts to a lot in the context of this conversation, since she obviously wasn't a villain there. Which is my point, no one has treated her as she was a villain.

Date: 2017-07-19 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
She either didn't know about their human sacrifice plans or she didn't care enough to find out. Either way she's negligent and callous about the consequences of her actions, which let me reiterate indirectly led to the murder of two women.

And a one off cameo in a large group scene means absolutely nothing considering how often Marvel editors drop the ball. Just look at Kid Gladiator who appeared both as a student at the Jean Grey School and in space fighting the Phoenix. In the same week. It just means the creative team didn't do enough research into all of the pointless guest appearances they stuffed into the issues

Date: 2017-07-21 03:07 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
That's a stretch and she's neither negligent nor callous, since she didn't know and she did not kill them herself. It's ridiculous to blame her for something she wasn't a part of. She didn't kill anyone, no matter how you twist it. The only thing she's guilty of is stealing from The Hood, who's a criminal. No one will see that as irredeemable.

And that cameo means absolutely everything, since once again, no one is treating her as a villain. She's still a hero as far as most writers are concerned. It's also important to remember that Victor Alvarez and Ava Ayala's cameo in that issue was acknowledged in Mighty Avengers. It wasn't ignored.

Besides, the idea to turn her into a villain was dumb and even then, she wasn't that bad in her one and only appearance as an antagonist. But it was still dumd and out of character, since the whole point is that she's a good guy even though her mother is a villain.

In any event, Slott tried to turn her into a villain because he couldn't use Gargan as the Scorpion at the time. Obviously, that's no longer an issue.
Edited Date: 2017-07-21 03:31 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-07-21 05:10 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
She didn't do her due diligence investigating her clients before accepting that job, their goals or plans. She didn't care enough to find out that they were planning to murder heroes. That is callousness.

That final arc of Young Avengers also included Jolt in the credits page of teen heroes. She hadn't returned from Counter-Earth yet since that only happened this year in the last Thunderbolts volume. Quentin Quire also appeared and by that point he had left the X-men to rejoin the Hellfire Club. So again the editors just weren't paying attention and the writers didn't do enough research.

Slott wasn't the writer of that issue. It was the same Spider-Man editors for likely the same reasons you cited, but the issue was written by one of Carmilla's own creators Fred Van Lente. So its not like he didn't understand the character.

Date: 2017-07-14 08:01 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Yea, she had one merc story, but even then she ended up fighting alongside him by the end of it iirc

I can see her in the morally-grey-lean-good-when-push-comes-to-shove merc role, but still not a *villain* who'd go looting.
Edited Date: 2017-07-14 08:05 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-07-14 01:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
It's been years since she's had a proper appearance and after the way some of her contemporaries have been treated I just don't have much faith in how Marvel would use her if she ever showed up again.

Date: 2017-07-14 05:01 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Given how unstable Marvel's various secret agencies are, I'm a little surprised that doesn't happen to more undercover agents.

Date: 2017-07-14 04:40 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
That's Scorpia, she was with Caroline Le Fey's all female Super villain team before this.

Date: 2017-07-13 11:57 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
So why are Shocker's gloves giving off electric crackles, though?

Date: 2017-07-14 12:05 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
That could be the artist's fault: he's told to draw a guy called "Shocker" and not being all too familiar with his powers drew the lightning effect.

But it would also be the fault of the editor if artist and writer aren't on the same to speak.

You're right, though; the best way to imply Shocker's powers would maybe be some blurred Photoshopped effect around his gauntlets along with maybe a "vrnnnnnnnnnnn" sound right before they kick in.

Hey, maybe the gloves are just poorly insulated. If so I'd stay well away from Shocker. :D

Date: 2017-07-14 12:16 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Okay, "Does this mean we're X-men now?" Got a chuckle.

Date: 2017-07-14 03:21 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
the fact he sound excited about the prospect also made me giggle.

Date: 2017-07-14 03:04 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tianyulong
I will never be able to take Rogue's accent seriously. Maybe it's based on some regional dialect I know nothing about, but It just sounds so goofy... does anyone even talk like that?

Date: 2017-07-14 06:11 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
The fact that she has the accent in caption boxes is pretty damn silly.

Date: 2017-07-14 04:19 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
I assume Claremont originally based her accent on the performance of a NYC drag queen whose character was supposed to be from Mississippi.

Date: 2017-07-14 06:41 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Wait, a guy named Jericho is possessed? That's a twist.


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