informationgeek: (RainbowDash)
[personal profile] informationgeek posting in [community profile] scans_daily
If there was one Marvel book that I had to say was probably the weakest thing currently being published, it would be America. It's not because of the themes or the character, but mostly on the writing... and how the character is written. There's... problems if you haven't noticed.


As such, let's take a brief look at one of the scenes of the first issue.



america0101

america0102

Umm.... America? You can, you know, teleport and stuff. It's not like this relationship would be affected all that much if one of you stays and the other moves. Just saying...

Also, pacing... not very good.

Date: 2017-07-27 11:51 pm (UTC)
full_metal_ox: (Default)
From: [personal profile] full_metal_ox
I'm reminded a bit of this hit-and-run Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon fanfic:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/749657/1/Crouching-Tiger-Hidden-Plot-Hole

Date: 2017-07-28 12:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
Was it ever explained why Chavez went from a patriotic legacy character to an inter dimensional hopper who just happened to have that look?

Because honestly, I prefer the legacy character to this usually over the top character

Date: 2017-07-28 12:44 am (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
Well, she basically only appeared in Joe Casey's Vengeance miniseries (2011), before being picked up for Kieron Gillen's Young Avengers (2013), so you can pin any changes on Gillen. I think he introduced almost all of the new defining characteristics, like interdimensional travel, lesbian mothers, and her own queerness.

Date: 2017-07-28 12:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
All of that I don't mind, but it just strikes me as pretty crappy to strip the legacy aspect from her and replace it with 'Oh, just a random ass coincidence!'

Especially when, IIRC, didn't she get trapped in another dimension in that mini and had to be rescued?

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Date: 2017-07-28 07:15 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
As I may have said before, I think my issue with Gillen's run was that America had characteristics (like the being gay and lesbian mothers bit), but no character. She was a walking plot device, but I felt I learned nothing much about her as a personality in the entire run of the series.

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Date: 2017-07-28 12:40 am (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
I'll admit that I wanted to like this series a lot. I want a comic featuring a queer Latina patriotic character to succeed so much, to show people it can be done and to support diversity and give people another role model in the comics and...

I even wanted this to succeed because Gabby Rivera seems really cool and she's a decent writer.

And yet this comic is a hot mess in terms of godawful pacing (so very rushed, so very frantic) and even worse dialogue and an even worse sense of what it wants to be. It's all over the place with its approach, and seems incapable of either slowing down or justifying itself as it stands. Rivera just doesn't seem to really understand comics writing, and the result is, as noted, really weak. I fully expect it to be cancelled any moment now--that it's making it to #8 as of this round of solicitations is actually a surprise.

My fear is that they'll cancel it, and everyone will, instead of blaming the writer for being inexperienced and untrained and maybe even a bad fit despite being, herself, queer and Latina, they'll blame the character and the diversity push, and use it as an excuse to go back to Bland White Guy Comics.

Sigh.

Date: 2017-07-28 04:24 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: Black Widow with sights on her (black widow)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Same. It's just so badly written, which is sad because there's bits of good (especially in the character work) showing through, but it's buried under a torrent of speech bubbles and racing through 10,000 scenes per comic.

Date: 2017-07-28 12:41 am (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Was the text from Adam supposed to be a doctor's note? I just don't see him going along with that. He'd point out that he's not a medical doctor and that furthermore, his expertise is in theoretical physics, not health or medicine.

Date: 2017-07-28 12:45 am (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
In the Marvel Universe, once you earn a doctorate, you are an doctor of EVERYTHING.

Date: 2017-07-28 01:30 am (UTC)
cygnia: (Vodka!)
From: [personal profile] cygnia
DOOM WILL NOT LOOK AT YOUR BUNIONS! TALK TO THAT CRETIN RICHARDS INSTEAD...

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Date: 2017-07-28 04:11 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
You could tell the comic was going to be bad just from the first page, where all the heroes went on and on about how way cool and awesome America was. Show, don't tell, Gabby. Prove to us America is who you claim she is.

We're up to issue five and it's a horrific train wreck of a comic. And it's supposed to go at least until issue #8 so our nightmare is far from over.

Date: 2017-07-28 11:08 am (UTC)
stubbleupdate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stubbleupdate
I understand what they were trying to do.
Snyder started his Batman run with it, teasing out the atmosphere with the "Gotham Is" vox pops.

America #1 just found different ways to say "well cool"

I read #1 and ditched it. It's a shame that something that the creator clearly cares a lot about is so bad.

Have Marvel stopped putting co-writers on books to help out new talent?

Date: 2017-07-28 12:02 pm (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
I have no idea. I do know the Hawkeye writer co-wrote America #5. Not sure if you caught it or not here but in that issue Kate Bishop basically gives a propaganda speech for the lesbian lifestyle.

I get what Gabby was trying to do, too, but it doesn't work if America isn't an iconic figure like, say, Wolverine or Spider Man. In fact, I think there was an issue of Avengers where they did that with Wolverine, where numerous people were sounding off about him and who he was, and showing how complex a character he is in the way he is different things to different people.

Maybe Rivera is a good writer, but she sucks at being a comic book writer. She isn't subtle in her delivery, can't write fight scenes, and obviously has a political axe to grind and Marvel expect people to pay $3.99 to hear it. Fortunately there are plenty of people on Youtube who will read it for me. :)

The House of Ideas has become The House of Ideology. That probably sounds more clever than it really is. :)

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Date: 2017-07-28 05:54 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Oh god that page with all the characters shilling America gave me Carlie Cooper vibes.

Date: 2017-07-29 04:06 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Man, just when I thought I'd forgotten about that character you had to remind me. :P

Date: 2017-07-28 11:32 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
I thought America was awesome when I first laid eyes on her in Gillen's Young Avengers, despite having no prior knowledge of her.

Rivera's first issue had the opposite effect, and I dropped this book like a hot potato. Thank goodness for Al Ewing.

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Date: 2017-07-28 08:18 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
The sad thing is that a really liked how Ewing wrote America and Lisa together, so it upsets me that it ends like this.

Date: 2017-07-28 01:38 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
Do you mean pacing for the book in general, or just the pages posted here? Because I actually like how it's all done in only two. Perhaps a bit too crammed, but definitely better than how ridiculously decompressed a lot of comics are nowadays.

Date: 2017-07-28 02:18 pm (UTC)
oracne: turtle (Default)
From: [personal profile] oracne
I am waiting for volume one to arrive, but the dialogue in this seems disappointingly bland.

Date: 2017-07-28 02:43 pm (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
Uh, wow. America went from zero to tantrum pretty darn fast. That's not a good sign. Is that how the writer thinks relationships normally work, or are they trying to establish something about Chavez's character through it?

Date: 2017-07-28 03:09 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
is this a reboot? wasn't number 1 posted a while ago? also who was the girl that was with her when Kate guest stared... I am so confused....

Date: 2017-07-28 03:21 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
This hasn't been rebooted, this is from America's current book. The scene you're talking about is from Ultimates.

Date: 2017-07-29 07:23 am (UTC)
jaxjyls: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaxjyls
I never really got into Chavez during Young Avengers or Ultimates, and this series does not help

Date: 2017-07-29 06:48 pm (UTC)
mizerous: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mizerous
What in holy menstruation...

...

...

*slumps into a bed while screaming*

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