Date: 2017-08-12 06:37 pm (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
Ennis, Ennis... such a good issue, marred by your making Jesse a mouthpiece for your views on "political correctness." Also, how exactly does body piercing fit into that?

Date: 2017-08-12 08:16 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
While I agree about the mouthpieceness of the scene, I think the part about piercing is the author being self-consciously sarcastic at himself, pushing his own rant towards the absurd (so as to set up the "I need to get laid' punchline – a joke he's made before about the angry PC liberals themselves; in caring so much about something inconsequential, Jesse is doing exactly what he's complaining about).

Maybe I'm just trying too hard to be generous; I used to think Frank Miller was self-parody, too.

Date: 2017-08-12 08:59 pm (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
This is Ennis were talking about, the guy, or atleast his writing, can be worryingly prone to double think at times. See, like, basically all of The Boys.

Date: 2017-08-12 09:15 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
> See, like, basically all of The Boys.

Not again I won't, thank you (-_-)

Date: 2017-08-12 11:37 pm (UTC)
stolisomancer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stolisomancer
It isn't wise to automatically consider a character's viewpoints to match one for one with an author's. Ennis is prone to character rants, some of which spring up often enough that they're clearly pet hatreds of his own (the Troubles, the Catholic Church, etc.), but I see a lot of people act as if everything his characters is say is automatically everything his characters believe.

It's also worth noting that Preacher is set in the 1990s, at around roughly the same time it was being published. The "political correctness" that Jesse is railing against here is not the "political correctness" of 2017; it's the desire to use elaborate terminologies in order to avoid the potential for offense, i.e. "African-American" or "differently abled." As Jesse says here, it mostly came off as well-meaning liberal white people trying to tone-police one another.

In 2017, of course, being "politically correct" is an accusation leveled against you by assholes whenever you remind them that minorities exist.

Date: 2017-08-13 12:25 am (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
"It isn't wise to automatically consider a character's viewpoints to match one for one with an author's."

Normally, I'd agree 100%.

However, this is not an isolated case with Ennis.

Now as I've said many a time, I do like and respect Ennis as a writer, at least with works like Hellblazer, Preacher and his various war series. That said, the right-wing streak (apart from his views on religion, of course) in much of his writing cannot be brushed aside as "just what his characters are saying." Ennis has just as much a right to soapbox at length through his characters as, for example, Denny O'Neill had to do so back in the 70s with Green Arrow's preachy rants (though from the opposite side of the political spectrum). I'm just pointing out that's what he's doing, is all.

Date: 2017-08-13 01:03 am (UTC)
stolisomancer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stolisomancer
I wouldn't call that an example of "right-wing" anything. That post you links to even blatantly expresses the "joke," as it were, with a quote directly from Ennis at the start: the goals are laudable, but the vocabulary is pompous. Jimmy himself underlines the joke, such as it is; social progress is a lovely and desirable thing, but the younger generations in the West have had a little too much therapy and it shows.

Ennis does tend to write about characters who are wrestling with a clash between traditional views and modern sensibilities; that's a major part of Jesse Custer's arc, for example. However, those characters are often proved wrong in the end, or turn out to be the antagonist. I remember way too many people who read the early arcs of The Boys and assumed Butcher was meant to be the audience surrogate/identification figure, when Butcher being an unstable monster is at least hinted at right from the beginning.

I think it's simply a matter of lazy critical analysis, and because Ennis spends so much time deliberately trying to wind people up, he gets the bad end of it. Every so often, I find it frustrating enough to comment.


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