superboyprime: (Default)
[personal profile] superboyprime posting in [community profile] scans_daily

'That small scene, um, generated a brief rash of outraged posts and emails to DC from the Work Far Too Hard At Being Offended crowd. "Byrne portrays Superman as a child molester!!" Happily, this was more than counterbalanced by responses from female readers who thought the scene was "beautiful". I guess they got it!' - John Byrne

Date: 2017-08-14 07:42 pm (UTC)
razsolo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] razsolo
Uhh no that's definitely creepy af John...

Incidentally, wasn't Byrne also the dude who came up with Sue Storm being in love with college age Reed when she was a kid? *squick levels rising*

Date: 2017-08-15 08:44 am (UTC)
razsolo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] razsolo
Ewww I had no idea it was that prevalent...and the line about him having had girlfriends who have been 40 years, all together that's REALLY disturbing :(

Date: 2017-08-15 09:26 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
Oh God, now I'm remembering 'Superman and Barda make a porno'. OH GOD NOW I'M REMEMBERING THE REST OF IT!

Oh John Byrne No...

Date: 2017-08-15 10:10 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Interestingly, this May-December stuff is almost completely absent from Byrne's Eighties Superman work, and when it DOES appear, it's from the other direction and with caveats. Cat Grant gets cougarish with Jimmy Olsen (though the narrative sort of frowns on it) and Superman gets really, REALLY flirty with Jimmy's mom (though just in one scene that I don't think is ever followed up on).

Date: 2017-08-16 01:49 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Hoo boy. I forgot about the three "World of" miniseries, which I never read. They seemed like unnecessary add-ons to a story that flowed pretty smoothly without them. And look what I missed.

That example at least fits the story in a way most of the others don't: Byrne's Lex Luthor was a depraved pervert, constantly abusing his power over those in weaker positions, and a couple of other stories made it clear that that spread to his sex life (poor Amanda). Lois making peace with it seems to stretch her character a bit, but I can see it: laughing him off as a sad old man watching video of someone he'll never have is her own expression of power.

I'll maintain that Byrne was on his best behavior during those years. There's a big difference between Lex Luthor acting on an attraction like this and Reed Richards or Kal-El even thinking of an underage girl in those terms.

Date: 2017-08-14 07:50 pm (UTC)
kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
The number of 'you know she's a kid, right?' moments in this series make me wonder if it actually had an editor.

Date: 2017-08-14 07:51 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aperturedreams
...Ew. She's 14.

Date: 2017-08-15 12:11 am (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
And he's like 930 or so at this point, so yeah, it's beyond weird and creepy. There's no good way to defend this.

Date: 2017-08-14 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
"This is Lois Lane - Your future daughter-in-law."

Her expression in that panel is gold.

Date: 2017-08-15 12:46 am (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
Saturn Girl's " I.. thought " represents Byrne's awareness of the optics of this.

Date: 2017-08-15 05:08 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: Black Widow with sights on her (black widow)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
No, that's really creepy, John Byrne! Not her asking for a kiss, but him giving it.

Date: 2017-08-15 12:08 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
It does count for something if female fans largely enjoyed this scene; it reminds me of the point that Fifty Shades of Grey is sexual fantasy by a woman for women, which is a category I think should exist. Seen entirely from Lana's point of view, it's a nice moment, a little consolation prize before (as far as she knows) she must go back to a fate of broken dreams.

You could argue that Superman is by now so old that age-inappropriateness just doesn't register on him like it used to, but that would mean the centuries of life have changed his values, and he acts too much like the guy we know for that.

Possible improvement: Superman seems to get younger with each frame after Lana asks for the kiss, until it's Superboy who kisses her. It's not real, of course: Saturn Girl's just giving her a little daydream before locking her and Lois's minds. Lana still gets her bittersweet ending, and Superman approves, but without having to do anything he shouldn't.
Edited Date: 2017-08-15 12:10 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-15 09:32 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
Well, for one, this weird shit happens so much in Byrne's work I really can't accept it as being "for women". I also think that quite a few critics of the Fifty Shades of Grey were women and that stuff like woman raping a man being played as sexy are intended fantasies for men as well and they are (rightly) criticized.

Date: 2017-08-16 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
It doesn't even justify a work if it's "for women" or not, really. Not everything "for women" is good for women or people in general. It's just... a factor, that leads me to an interesting shift in how I normally think about things like this. It might lead somewhere productive and non-creepy, somewhere down the line.

Date: 2017-08-17 11:44 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
So wait, I thought they were going to use the time bubble themselves? Why put it back so you have to erase everything that happened instead of just keeping it from happening at all in the first place?


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