Date: 2017-08-16 04:48 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
"I didn't understand what I was doing"

She referring to how she beat him up, raped him and told him to 'man up'?

Date: 2017-08-16 05:11 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (Zod)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
In the Viltrumite's "Might Makes Right" culture, consent probably wasn't a thing. She has learned about it, as well as empathy and sacrifice, from human culture.

It was rape. She is culpable, and she doesn't deny that. She clearly has tremendous guilt, which does not redeem her by any stretch, but does reflect movement on her character arc.

Date: 2017-08-16 05:34 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I don't recall Mark's dad raping anyone even when he was a villain and fully on the Viltrumite side.

And if he did Kirkman would have probably given us a full issue of torture porn with him getting his eyeball scooped out with a spoon and his penis cut off for good measure as opposed to having him cry about it and say he didn't know better.
Edited Date: 2017-08-16 05:37 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-16 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aperturedreams
Well, she raped Mark due to plot points that would come later in the Viltrumite War (expanding the species). Mark's dad would had no reason to do such a thing. Though it's not like he didn't murder a bunch of people himself and then also get redeemed.

Date: 2017-08-16 06:17 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Everyone in the comic is a murderer including the main hero.

Date: 2017-08-16 06:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aperturedreams
That's true, I guess I thought his dad's murders included more innocents, though after recent events no one comes out looking great

Date: 2017-08-16 06:38 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Mark killed an innocent guy who was being used against his will by aliens. This was pointed out by the characters around him.

Although it goes without saying that in fiction you can be a mass murderer and still come out as an antihero or get a redemption arc. Rapists (guys at least), generally less so.
Edited Date: 2017-08-16 06:40 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-16 09:22 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
Look... I think Kirkman was very careful in showing what happened to Mark was rape and never portrayed it as anything else and showed how awful a crime it is. And I don't think a genuinely regretful rapist should never, under no circumstances be given a second chance at life. But... There are so very few sensitive portrayals of male rape, that giving female rapist a redemptive arc (even just a redemptive death) just seems like bad taste period.

Like, have I missed all those storylines where female rapists are treated as complete, unrepentant monsters Kirkman is trying to subvert? Cause seems like treating them as rapist at all is still pretty subversive. It's not as if there have been so many redemption arcs for male rapist AND THAT'S NOT A BAD THING, I AM NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. But this way, while Kirkman probably considered this brave and risky, it actually comes of more like him backing out.

Date: 2017-08-16 09:42 pm (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
Honestly, her clumsy dialogue here bugs me. She's sorry, but she doesn't regret it? Well she's not really sorry then, is she? And how is Mark supposed to understand that? We've seen him deal with the aftermath and it obviously still haunts him.

Date: 2017-08-16 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
She doesn't regret because she had a child.
So I guess if she could revive the past, she'd do exactely the same thing because not doing it would be erasing her child.
Mark would probably understand, indeed, since he choose his daughter's life over the lives of thousands.

Date: 2017-08-17 04:25 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Female rapists are rarely if ever depicted as monsters.

One of the most disgusting examples being Zelena on Once Upon a Time. No joke -- she kills Robin Hood's wife and impersonates her, impregnates herself with his child and the rest of her arc is basically her being a mother to the rape baby after Robin is bumped off. The word rape is never mentioned. At all. Like holy fuck.

Here she is saying goodbye to Robin's other son. Awwww! She just raped his dad and killed his mother but he still wuvs her!

Date: 2017-08-16 09:41 pm (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
Also, despite appearing as a major, dramatic moment at the end of the previous issue, Nolan is alive in this issue. Once again proving the criticism someone on here pointed out that almost no one dies, despite obvious fatal injuries. Which, the more I think about it, the more they're right.

That said, I've still enjoyed the series as a whole. It's had its fair share of ups and downs, and I honestly agree with most criticism I've read. But I'll happily have the third and final compendium on my shelf once it's inevitably released.

Date: 2017-08-16 10:27 pm (UTC)
tigerkaya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tigerkaya
So the the rapist gets a second chance *€÷× Kirkman, £*%= you. Just stick to dragging out Walking dead.

Horror genre is the only thing your good at.

Date: 2017-08-16 10:48 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
If mass murderers in this comics can get a second chance, why not rapists?

Date: 2017-08-17 02:26 am (UTC)
tigerkaya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tigerkaya
Depends on the murder for rapist there is no out only execution regardless of gender.

I'm hoping what's her name has her spine removed.

Date: 2017-08-17 04:18 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Why not child molesters too while we're at it?

Date: 2017-08-17 12:06 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
Killing hundreds or thousands is still worse. If mass murderers get a free pass, everybody does.
We live in a world where a multiple genocider like Vegeta in Dragon Ball is popular and is allowed to have a loving familiy without even expressing any remorse for what he did. So I'd say any fictional character can get a second chance, no mater what they did.
Edited Date: 2017-08-17 12:11 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-17 12:48 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
So if this same exact scene happened with the Governor or Purple Man or Ramsay Bolton you'd be cool with it?

Date: 2017-08-17 10:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
It would have to be a sincere and credible change. Not just the "hey's let's be heroes now" Kilgrave ried to pull into the TV series.
In related fictions, they managed to make sympathetic somebdoy who turn a fan favorite's head into a splashed tomatoe, and somebody who tried to kill a child because he surprised him fucking his sister.
Murder of innocents is the worst thing, period.

Date: 2017-08-18 02:04 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Which is actually worse is debatable. But in fiction at least rape is the worst thing a character can do. There's a reason why many people think making Jaime a rapist in the show permanently ruined that version of the character.


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