cyberghostface: (Joker)
[personal profile] cyberghostface posting in [community profile] scans_daily
"At the end of the day, if they haven’t got any properties that are valuable enough, but they have got these ‘top-flight industry creators’ that are ready to produce these prequels and sequels to Watchmen, well this is probably a radical idea, but could they not get one of the ‘top-flight industry creators’ to come up with an idea of their own? Why are DC Comics trying to exploit a comic book that I wrote 25 years ago if they have got anything? Sure they ought to have had an equivalent idea since? I could ask about why Marvel Comics are churning out or planning to bring out my ancient Marvelman stories, which are even older, if they had a viable idea of their own in the quarter-century since I wrote those works. I mean, surely that would be a much easier solution than all of this clandestine stuff? Just simply get some of your top-flight talent to put out a book that the wider public outside of the comics field find as interesting or as appealing as the stuff that I wrote 25 years ago. It shouldn’t be too big an ask, should it? I wouldn’t have thought so. And it would solve an awful lot of problems. They must have one creator, surely, in the entire American industry that could do equivalent work to something I did 25 years ago. It would be insulting to think that there weren’t." -- Alan Moore





Date: 2017-08-25 02:09 pm (UTC)
lucean: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lucean
What is perhaps striking is that this happening at the same time as Metal, which in turn is one of the crazy, original fun.

Date: 2017-08-26 02:23 am (UTC)
jaxjyls: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaxjyls
My feelings are the inverse on which series seems the more crazy fun

Date: 2017-08-25 03:18 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
well.... ikinda seen where moore is coming from... but at the same time... these creators grew up with this comic and who wouldn't LOVE to play with these characters? Corporate aside, these creators (I would too) would JUMP at the chance to work with such legendary characters. If anyone should get the criticism it's the corporate side, not the creators.

Date: 2017-08-25 03:44 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
i'm not sure that portrayal of Manhattan would necessarily be off... not that he is the "Villain" perse, more like he's viewing the universe as a scientist would. running experiments and being removed from it. it would line up with how he was all through watchmen, including the ending where he seemingly wanted to know how "miraculous" humans are. this could be him examining the DCU and wondering what makes them so different from others?

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Date: 2017-08-25 05:03 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
I do kinda agree with Moore, but flipside, that kind of cultural cache takes time to build and also involves a lot of luck.

I mean, they did make Kingdom Come and mine that one too, and Crisis on Infinite Earths is still a model for the industry and IMO more influential than Watchman, but it's certainly not something even a great can do on demand.
Edited Date: 2017-08-25 05:04 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-25 04:14 pm (UTC)
elf: We need a hero, son: A super-FREAKY hero. (Need a Hero)
From: [personal profile] elf
Why are DC Comics trying to exploit a comic book that I wrote 25 years ago if they have got anything?

Because when your focus switches from "let's tell awesome stories that make us enough money to tell more awesome stories" to "let's make money - we can tell stories to do that," new stories of uncertain income are not as compelling as rehashes with new art and new dialogue.

And it ties into the entire publishing industry acting like its output is a form of veggie produce that goes bad in a few weeks. They can't just say, "hey, it's been a couple of decades and new readers aren't familiar with the details of these stories - let's run a reprint of them with new merch on the side!"

Date: 2017-08-26 03:46 am (UTC)
laughing_tree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughing_tree
I question "switch." I think we're fooling ourselves if we think the focus hasn't always been, "Let's make money."

Date: 2017-08-25 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
Aside from the fact the Big Two have been trying to have Nostalgia be their primary selling point for at least a decade, I think the problem is not that Marvel or DC lack "top.flight talent" or that said talent "can't" find an original idea.
I think it's much simpler than that: They simply refuse to give said ideas to DC And Marvel, who, assuming it is not wasted by the next writer,will most likely screw them over when it comes to royalties or ownership.

For example, Runaways is one of the most popular Vaughan works, with many fan-favorite characters. Aside from the ocassional cameo, it is a series almost enitrely composed of original characters and ideas. Runaways is owned by Marvel. the tv series will probably give Vaughan some credit, but it will be a Marvel Studios property.

"Y: The Last Man" was published in Vertigo. I think YTLM could work as a "kamandi" reimagining (some changes may be needed, but you get my point). If it had been created around the time before Vertigo basically became DC's "Creator-Owned" imprint, I think it most likely would have been. It owuld certainly fit Vertigo's tone at the time (re-use old properties with a more mature tone).
But because it wasn't (most likely because Vaughan wanted to own the series), today he owns the rights (along with Guerra) and there is supposed to be a TV Series in the works.

Which one was the better deal for Vaughan?
Of course, it is not a guarantee sucess that you WILL get a tv series (I have yet to see more news about the YTLM tvshow, after all) and working for the big two is still better paid than working on your creator-owned stuff.

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Date: 2017-08-25 05:29 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Excellent point.

Date: 2017-08-26 04:03 am (UTC)
laughing_tree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughing_tree
Vaughan's related the story of how his agent told him he was crazy to give an idea like RUNAWAYS away to Marvel. Vaughan is not regretful, though. He intended RUNAWAYS as his gift to Marvel for all it'd done for him.

For 'name' writers, Big Two work doesn't even pay better than creator-owned. Partly because creator owned gives much higher royalties so that it can pay more even with a print run a fraction of a Big Two title's. Partly because you can guarantee work you own is kept in print, something the Big Two won't necessarily do because their back catalogue is so huge already.

A number of creators have talked about how it's *only* the appeal of working on characters they love that keeps them doing Big Two books. That's another reason there's so much nostalgia focus at the Big Two, I guess. For a lot of their writers, working on childhood favorites is the only reason they're doing the job in the first place.

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Date: 2017-08-25 04:22 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Much of Alan Moore's work is based on the theme "The Margaret Thatcher Administration is bad and you should feel bad." He may wonder why following up his work is needed if Thatcher isn't around any more.

Maybe you can blame the Thatcher Administration for Brexit. I don't know.

Date: 2017-08-25 04:22 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
Boy, that Trinity rorschach does not look good.

Date: 2017-08-26 01:26 am (UTC)
pyrrhocorax: It's an edition of the Daily Bugle newspaper, with the headline EVERYTHING AWFUL Oh God Somebody Do Something (everything awful)
From: [personal profile] pyrrhocorax
It’s giving me such bad second-hand embarrassment...

Date: 2017-08-25 05:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] richmatdal
Perhaps, instead of creating that work under a work-for-hire agreement and then participating in 25 years of conflict and exploitation, they've chosen to create those grand ideas in a more creator-owned space.

Date: 2017-08-25 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
I really like that Geoff Johns is writing this. After Moore basically tried to take credit for Johns' Blackest Night story because it was partially inspired by a backup story he wrote, Johns really has no incentive to respect Moore

Date: 2017-08-25 11:11 pm (UTC)
walkingthroughforest: (Default)
From: [personal profile] walkingthroughforest
I think I'm at the point where I'm finally sick of Moore's complaining.

There were a lot of moving parts for both parties and there is responsibility that Alan Moore needs to be accountable for. He voluntarily chose to sign a contract which did not guarantee him the rights to these characters. When Moore signed that contract no one could have expected that Watchmen would have become one of the most critically acclaimed and best selling graphic novels of all time. One that would be illogical from a business standpoint to ever take it out of print.

How many characters have been created by freelance writers in the DCU? For the most part how has DC handled them in comparison to Watchmen? The publisher had left them untouched for nearly 30 years until Before Watchmen (which was nothing more than backstory to the original series). They treated this property and Alan's handling of it like gold.

An unmentionable number of creators have laid the groundwork for ideas and stories that are still being used today, including superstars like Byrne, Gaimen, Perez, Wolfman, Waid, ect. and Alan Moore seems to be the only writer where people get high and mighty about expanding and growing his ideas.

Just because Moore was the Wayne Gretzky of writers makes people forget that he was still just a writer, and he should be subject to the same rules as everyone else.
Edited Date: 2017-08-25 11:19 pm (UTC)

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Date: 2017-08-26 02:19 pm (UTC)
doctor_spanky: (Default)
From: [personal profile] doctor_spanky
"The publisher had left them untouched for nearly 30 years until Before Watchmen (which was nothing more than backstory to the original series)."

But DC didn't leave them untouched for 30 years, they kept the book in print all that time to cash in on the property later (now)

"They treated this property and Alan's handling of it like gold."

They treated Alan Moore pretty terribly

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Date: 2017-08-26 02:49 am (UTC)
informationgeek: (djpon3)
From: [personal profile] informationgeek
I just want this to be good. That's it. Please be good.

Date: 2017-08-26 02:09 pm (UTC)
doctor_spanky: (Default)
From: [personal profile] doctor_spanky
I do too, but in the same way I want the aftermath of a hurricane to be good

Date: 2017-09-04 02:36 pm (UTC)
junipepper: (Default)
From: [personal profile] junipepper
How many times can Alan Moore repeat the words "25 years" in one paragraph? Add in the synonymous "quarter century" and the point is rather labored.

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