Date: 2017-09-04 01:43 pm (UTC)
riddler13: (riddler)
From: [personal profile] riddler13
So, Kite Man's name is Charlie Brown, eh?

*le sigh*

Ah well, at least it has the Riddler. Everything's better with the Riddler.

Date: 2017-09-04 02:10 pm (UTC)
riddler13: (riddler)
From: [personal profile] riddler13
Thanks for pointing it out!

Date: 2017-09-04 03:07 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Riddler standing there with his shirt open to his waist just looks... off.

Eddie should be dapper, at all times (He chose to include a bowler hat in his costume after all, and who does that these days?), not this weird "I put my shirt one, and tucked it into my trousers, but couldn't be bothered to do the buttons up" look.

Date: 2017-09-04 03:10 pm (UTC)
riddler13: (riddler)
From: [personal profile] riddler13
Also, he's buff. How does a man who schemes elaborate deathtraps find the time to diet and work out that much?

Date: 2017-09-04 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Now I'm reminded of Gail Simone justifying a Huntress costume change (that includes a belly shirt) by having her say something along the lines of "I've been working on my abs"

Date: 2017-09-05 08:33 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Just to clarify, that was Gail trying to deal with a costume redesign (By Jim Lee possibly?) that she inherited on the title which she was not especially keen on (because why the hell would you choose to suddenly expose your belly when you never had before?) working on the "If you can't justify it, make a joke of it" approach.

Date: 2017-09-06 11:23 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] caivu
Because I always have to point it out when it's mentioned, the thing that makes the redesigned Huntress costume extra stupid is that before the redesign, during No Man's Land, she was shot in the stomach and almost died.

Date: 2017-09-05 04:13 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
Didn't at one point Riddler give himself a dose of Venom so he could have brawn to match his brain? I think I read that on a Riddler action figure once. Or was that never in the comic?

Date: 2017-09-05 06:56 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
No, that happened. Bane gave him some Venom as part of Knightfall.

But since Venom also reduces the user's intelligence, Vemon!Riddler turned out to be *less* effective than the regular version.

Date: 2017-09-05 12:36 pm (UTC)
riddler13: (riddler)
From: [personal profile] riddler13
Actually, one of Bane's assistants thought it would be a good idea to see the Batman pit his wits against the Riddler, but Bane decided to simply shoot him with Venom and let them duke it out.

Date: 2017-09-05 06:15 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jmacq1
I dunno, I've often found that comic-book genius bad guys should be more physically fit than they're often presented as being, because someone that intelligent would understand the value of physical fitness in a life of comic-book crime.

Date: 2017-09-04 04:48 pm (UTC)
cygnia: (Vodka!)
From: [personal profile] cygnia
If Poison Ivy offs him with a Kite Eating Tree...

Date: 2017-09-04 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
"HOW. DO. YOU. KNOW. WHAT. HAPPENED. AT. JOKER'S. PLACE. WITH. THAT. MUCH. DETAIL!?"

Date: 2017-09-04 03:14 pm (UTC)
deathcrist2000: (Default)
From: [personal profile] deathcrist2000
He's Batman, he couldn't stop being that thorough even if he wanted to (which he doesn't).

Date: 2017-09-04 03:13 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: Sad Nightwing (Sad Nightwing)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Based on how he escaped from prison etc, Riddler seems obsessed with killing children and I gotta say, I'm not okay with that.

Some mild sidekick imperilment, sure, that's part of their job, but casually murdering kids to get back at the parents, that should be beneath the sort of rogues who can make it in Gotham, low hanging fruit, as it were.

Date: 2017-09-05 07:43 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
I hope that's not the direction Riddler is being taken in, because it doesn't fit him. Eddie is all about proving himself to be the smartest guy around. He tries to prove he's smarter than Batman, the police, anyone who insults him, some guy the newspaper declares to be the smartest man in Gotham, etc.

Killing a child doesn't prove anything. Any sufficiently cruel idiot could do it. It's the sort of thing most incarnations of the Riddler would consider utterly beneath him.

(Threatening children to walk out of Arkham, though, was fair game, since it was Eddie using information as a weapon, and against the adults trying to keep him locked up).

Date: 2017-09-05 02:02 pm (UTC)
randyripoff: (Blue Devil)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
Sadly, it's been a thing for a while now to turn all of the villains into monsters. There aren't any bank robbers or schemers who want to match wits--just killers and sickos.

I've been doing a retrospective of Blue Devil, and I read/heard from Cohn/Mishkin about the distinction between a crook and a villain--they were specifically talking about the Trickster in that instance. I'm sure the current Trickster has a massive body count at this point, not to mention some really sadistic tendencies.

Date: 2017-09-05 02:22 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
As someone who misses the good old-fashioned, kidnap the sidekick to stick in the overelaborate deathtrap, distracting the hero whilst we go to commit the fifth and final robbery in our carefully calculated sequence of themed crimes" I feel for you.

If it's any consolation I think the Trickster and the Flash's Rogues in general (with an exception or two) have retained their "Don't kill random civilians just to make a point" ethos, even in the New52.

Cops and superheroes are fair game, they know what they're letting themselves in for (but you don't kill them because you enjoy it, you do it because they're in your way), but there's a work ethic to the Rogues.

Date: 2017-09-04 03:38 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Not happy about this. At all.

I'm not happy about Riddler killing a child (didn't even do that as a casualty during a robbery or something, but purposefully and specifically targeted him. Seriously, does everybody in the rogues' gallery have to be the goddamn Joker?). But I might have accepted it if, like, the boy's father had been going out of his way to fuck Riddler over, maybe to steal the loot or something.

But to kill the kid just for shit and giggles?

To target him even before the father has done anything at all? And while knowing that the father only "betrayed" Riddler (in an extremely looose sense at that, not like he was Riddler's underling or anything, he was more or less a bystander) against his will because he had been terrorized by both Batman and the Joker?

Yeah, I hate this.

Date: 2017-09-04 04:36 pm (UTC)
riddler13: (Default)
From: [personal profile] riddler13
So do I. It's disgusting. And I should know!
Edited Date: 2017-09-04 04:36 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-09-04 08:19 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
Yeah. This isn't any Riddler I know and love. It's Diet Joker.

Date: 2017-09-05 05:48 am (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
Diet Joker, holy shit that's perfect.

Date: 2017-09-05 08:48 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Which is very easily done, if you're not careful.

The BTAS writers only wrote three Riddler-centric stories because most of the plots they came up with were too much like Joker plots and they'd rather not use him than dilute what made him different. (There's also a scene, in Mad Love I think, where the Joker is trying to come up with a deathtrap and is drawing a blank, dismissing one of his ideas as "Too... Riddler")

Though of course Frank Gorshin's Riddler always seemed a LOT more of a psychotic killer than Cesar Romero's Joker.

Date: 2017-09-04 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
I still think this works better as a noodle incident than actual story.

Riddler and Joker are largely dangerous because they threaten innocent people. Batman plays their game to save said innocent people.

But the two going head to head? Neither would play the other's game, and I don't think the rogues would bother to side with one over the other. It's like Civil War all over again, Gotham style.

Maybe a series of escalating capers would work as a 'war', but this? Not so much

Date: 2017-09-05 08:49 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
"Capers"..... god but I miss capers....

Date: 2017-09-04 09:58 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
Giving a joke character a tragic backstory doesn't make them any less of a joke, it just changes the joke a little.

Date: 2017-09-04 11:22 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (batgirl (christmas tree ornament))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Awful, just awful.

The Joker answering his door with knife in hand is wise on his part. I'd love to see someone blow him away as he tore up Barbara's spine in TKJ.

Date: 2017-09-05 12:26 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
It's not exactly Barbara, but if it's the genre-savviness you're after, Alfred shotgunned Joker's head off during an issue of Batman and Robin.

It was during a dream sequence in that 'Stages of Grief' arc, but still graphically presented.

Date: 2017-09-05 10:41 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (alfred--terry (pumpkin))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
t's not exactly Barbara, but if it's the genre-savviness you're after, Alfred shotgunned Joker's head off during an issue of Batman and Robin.

It was during a dream sequence in that 'Stages of Grief' arc, but still graphically presented.


I could see Alfred finally offing the Joker after another attack on his family proves to be the last straw. I prompted that for [community profile] dark_fest when there used to be a [community profile] dark_fest. :)

Date: 2017-09-05 12:36 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
Riddle me this: I'm going to poison your son. Not exactly The Lady or the Tiger, Eddie.

I still think Tom King is a decent Batman writer (the first/second arcs and the proposal issue are total highlights) and will continue to support his work on Batman (because Batman), but when it comes to Riddler, I think I prefer Snyder's version.

That escape scene where Riddler stood down the guards by just rattling off names was good, though.

Date: 2017-09-05 12:15 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
And Eddie would USE an actual tiger. (Though I think it was Catwoman who did that in the Batman 66 series, though it works for both characters)

Date: 2017-09-05 05:17 am (UTC)
lissa_quon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lissa_quon
Not sure how the quote applies - this doesn't feel like Astro City.

I enjoy Astro City. Not enjoying this.

Date: 2017-09-05 07:17 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
I can see what he's going for - there's a number of Astro City stories focusing on sympathetic low-level villains, such as Steeljack or Junkman. A loser stool pigeon stuck between dueling supervillains and a hero could absolutely be something Busiek would write.

But here's the thing - if Astro City had a story in which a joke villain's child is murdered, that would be *central* to the story, because that's where the emotional heart is. It would about Kite Man and his family reacting to this horrible event, not using it as revenge fodder.

In contrast, the Astro City we're getting Wednesday is about a super-powered corgi. And I assure you there will be poignant emotional depth to that.

Date: 2017-09-05 08:25 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
Counterpoint: https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6401092.html

Admittedly, this is the obverse scenario, where the death of a patriarch motivates a child to take up the mantle. But it plays on the same themes of grief and familial loss. And it's told with such clunky generic dialogue as: "Jack-in-the-Box! You ruined my life! You ruined everything! Why do you get to live? Why do you get to do this to me? And why - why can't I hurt you - the way you hurt me?"

Reading those panels, do you genuinely feel the family's grief? Is there poignant emotional depth there? Or is it just melodramatic and expository and awkwardly abridged, where the villain's family just comes across as petty idiots?

Date: 2017-09-05 08:42 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
It's not the best Astro City, certainly, but when your villain name is literally "Drama Queen" (and the daughter of Mr Drama, no less), I think I sort of expect some overblown histrionics in your dialogue and accept that your memory for your mother's diatribes as a tragic backstory might be a tad unreliable.

Date: 2017-09-05 09:01 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
The dialogue isn't histrionic, though. As I said, it's generic, expository. It's going through the motions. Self-delusion is a dramatically compelling subject, and if she was actually histrionic we would be able to feel the rawness of her grief, even as we realize how misdirected it is. As it is, she's interchangeable with a generic vengeful supervillain.

Date: 2017-09-09 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] philippos42
Busiek's Astro City has run hot and cold from the beginning: some really clever issues mixed with some really generic ones.

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