Date: 2017-09-13 05:53 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
This makes me hate the Avengers almost as much as the Marvel US government. Mutants get crapped on, again, and no one outside the X-men gives a damn.

Really they should just move in with Namor. Safe from nukes and they don't have to deal with this bullshit.

Date: 2017-09-13 06:29 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
seriously.

Date: 2017-09-13 06:30 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: (Bitch Please)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
I just.... damnit.....

Date: 2017-09-13 06:47 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Namor isn't exactly happy with them at the moment.

Date: 2017-09-13 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gnarll
So I assume the Magneto - Rogers pact is over.

I really don't see why the mutants surrendered here. They got Magneto, Illyana, Rachel Summers, Polaris, Storm, Rogue, Amara, etc, etc, etc. Sentinels never amounted to anything against mutants. See how many Avengers are willing to go up against all the mutants.

There is plenty of legal precedent in the MU for superhumans just seizing land and the authorities having to negotiate. New Tian could simply have been presented as a fait accompli.

Date: 2017-09-13 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
"the homeland mutants have dreamt of"
"The mutants", I don't know, but Charles Xavier sure never dreamt of a place where non-mutants would be second rate citizen. I'm pretty sure that Cyclops you hate so much never dreamt of that either, Hank.

Date: 2017-09-13 08:30 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
"The homeland you dreamt of... apart from Avalon/Asteroid X, oh and Genosha... and probably another couple of places which more or less fit that idea"

And seriously, SENTINELS? The US is openly using Sentinels in a mutant situation?

Date: 2017-09-13 09:05 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
"Come on, Emma. If mutants don't have someone to bully and lord it over, they'd commit suicide. Oh, wait. If YOU didn't have someone to bully and lord it over, YOU'D commit suicide."

Date: 2017-09-13 09:46 pm (UTC)
shakalooloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shakalooloo
Well, HYDRA just left them lying around along with their Fear-mechs and Terrorcarriers, and waste not, want not...

Date: 2017-09-13 09:56 pm (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
Like when they literally lived in a place called Utopia.

Date: 2017-09-13 10:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
Because mutants can't win a war of attrition.

One on one, most mutants can beat one sentinel. But Sentinels can be replaced quicker and faster than any mutant. A war would eventually turn in their favor.

Besides, the majority of the X-Men wouldn't agree to annexing another nation like this. They just needed something to do while Hydra was kicking around ;)

Date: 2017-09-13 10:52 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
"Oh, I'm sorry, Hank, I couldn't hear you over the staggering irony in that statement!"
"I'm amazed you even know what irony is, Emma!"
"More than you ever will, Hank! Or are you too busy devastating timelines to read a dictionary?"

FIVE MINUTES LATER: What's left of Tian is in flames, and Emma and Hank are trying to bludgeon each other to death with folding chairs.

Date: 2017-09-14 12:09 am (UTC)
flint_marko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
Did something happen after AVX?

Date: 2017-09-14 04:45 am (UTC)
sarahnewlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarahnewlin
When Betsy went for a dive and discovered it lol

Date: 2017-09-14 12:20 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Don't worry Emma, eventually someone will remember that you started a race war...you'll make the history books for sure.

I get that I'm supposed to feel bad that the latest Mutant Utopia is gone (despite the fact that it was founded on a huge bed of lies and manipulation)...but I'm pretty sure this wasn't the Great Society Hank and Emma seem to think it was. Oppresion of non-Mutants was not part of Xavier's dream, certainly. Moreover, I suspect (since we're never shown) that many of the residents of this location had no desire to suddenly wake up and discover they were in a new country or GTFO, especially if they weren't rich.

What doesn't make much sense is destroying all the new structures rather than repurposing them...except to wipe the slate clean in the MU, so five years from now no one remembers this event happened. I mean, we often maintain sites from Olympic games that often were originally designed to last past the event, but somehow they want to destroy an entire sub-city?

Date: 2017-09-14 10:03 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
"They'll never know who their queen was..."

Am I the only one who wishes Marvel would get over their obsession with monarchies?

Date: 2017-09-15 12:43 am (UTC)
dr_archeville: Doctor Arkeville (Default)
From: [personal profile] dr_archeville
Putting aside the issue of the U.S. Government using SENTINELS to tear down New Tian's buildings as they reabsorb those lands back into northern California... why do those buildings even need to be torn down?

I don't think Damage Control would have signed off on this...
Edited Date: 2017-09-15 12:48 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-09-15 07:46 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Marvel doesn't just hit the Reset Button, they smash it with Mjolnir.

After all, this is not the sort of shit that just goes away. America spent a year taken over by a fascist government. Mutantkind took over their own chunk of America and immediately turned it into House of M 2.0. Vegas was destroyed. Barricading New York City should have resulted in millions of deaths from starvation, disease, and demon attack.

By all rights, every one of these should have massive, irrevocable consequences. Such consequences, though, would utterly break the Marvel Universe's "real world but with added fantasy elements" setting.

So Marvel's decided to have their cake and eat it too, telling readers that Secret Empire both matters and doesn't matter.

Destroying completely good buildings for no in-universe reason is the perfect fucking metaphor.
Edited Date: 2017-09-15 09:17 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-09-15 08:58 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gnarll
Good reason not to let it turn into a war of attrition then:) Letting the other side set the terms of an armed conflict is not a sound strategy.

And the X-Men all seemed perfectly fine with seizing territory in Utopia.

Date: 2017-09-15 07:21 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Right. There wasnt even a "Utopia Island is on land legally purchased and owned by Worthington Enterprises" or some legal caveat, IIRC.

Date: 2017-09-16 12:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
The X-Men wouldn't get a choice in the matter, unless they were willing to cripple the US government.

And taking Utopia, a relatively small island that they raised and maintained is far different from taking an entire state. I doubt anyone opposed them much while Hydra was around, but I doubt many would agree to Emma et al ruling them.

Date: 2017-09-16 06:08 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
Wasn't Utopia literally new land, the remains of Asteroid M fallen to earth? Uncomfortably close to the coast of California, perhaps, but it's not as if they suddenly annexed Golden Gate Park to be the new mutant homeland. looks sideways at the Inhumans...

Date: 2017-09-16 06:11 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
But then we couldn't have all those alternate future stories where every country is ruled by the most popular superhero native to said country!

Date: 2017-09-16 06:12 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
Mutie Cooties, I'm guessing.

Date: 2017-09-16 09:09 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
I mean, if Marvel wanted to do a Twilight of the Superheroes type storyline and dig into the issues with hereditary superhumans ruling over unpowered populaces, that could actually by kind of cool. But this whole "born queen," thing, or the assumption that I should be rooting for someone in particular in a given Atlantean or Inhuman power struggle because they're the rightful king...

Yes

Date: 2017-09-18 01:07 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] trainradio
Utopia was the remains of one of Magento's Asteroid Ms. They brought it to the surface of the ocean and Namor and the Atlantians built a pillar to keep it from sinking. The New X-Men had an adventure inside where they encountered an old hologram of Magneto during his more fanatical days.

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