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Date: 2009-08-12 10:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] midnightvoyager.insanejournal.com
Oh my god, CHARLES, I'VE MISSED YOU SO MUCH AS A PROPERLY FLAWED YET GOOD MAN!

Date: 2009-08-12 10:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
Charles logic in NOT telling them really was... no logic at all, was it?

How is it protecting them, not telling them a fact that's actually quite important to the future of their entire culture.

Date: 2009-08-12 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] punishermax.insanejournal.com
I'm sorry but Charles has ALWAYS been an asshole. He's supposed to be their teacher yet he trains an army of kids to be his black ops force?

Plus, pretty much every member of the Illuminati was a dick.

Date: 2009-08-12 10:29 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-08-12 10:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taggerung301.insanejournal.com
motto to the first comment btw
i like Xavier

Date: 2009-08-12 10:42 pm (UTC)
ext_396464: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xdoop.insanejournal.com
The original X-Men weren't a black ops force.

Date: 2009-08-12 10:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] punishermax.insanejournal.com
It's sort of transformed into that though hasen't it?

My major issue is that if you look at something like The Avengers, these guys joined KNOWING that they would be fighting aliens and stuff.

The X-men were oficially molded in a school setting that just...skeevs me out. I mean, Prof. X is an incredible telepath, is it really so much of a stretch that he could have subtly molded these impressionable kids to be his little team?

Date: 2009-08-12 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
I had more of an issue with their "We must be the vanguard for human/mutant harmony... which we will do by not having any non-mutants on the team, hiding in a secluded base of operations and not interacting with humans much at all, and certainly not going public to show the world we're people just like anyone else.

Date: 2009-08-12 10:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mullon.insanejournal.com
"X-Men Forever"...Ohhhh, it's ironic.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:00 pm (UTC)
ext_396464: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xdoop.insanejournal.com
t's sort of transformed into that though hasen't it?

Only after Xavier left and Cyclops the x-dick took over.

My major issue is that if you look at something like The Avengers, these guys joined KNOWING that they would be fighting aliens and stuff.

I don't think Xavier ever kept that a secret.

Not to mention that he usually tried to prevent the New Mutants from going into battles.

I mean, Prof. X is an incredible telepath, is it really so much of a stretch that he could have subtly molded these impressionable kids to be his little team?

Yes, it is a stretch. If Xavier wasn't above brainwashing the X-Men to be his minions, he'd probably try brainwashing everyone else to accept mutants first.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] punishermax.insanejournal.com
It's been openly stated in Ultimate X Men That X does the whole mind washing shit all the time.

In 616 Xavier uses guitl trips as a powerful weapon too.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:09 pm (UTC)
ext_396464: (Magneto & Xavier.)
From: [identity profile] xdoop.insanejournal.com
It's been openly stated in Ultimate X Men That X does the whole mind washing shit all the time.

Proteus made Beast think that was the case, but it was never really confirmed.

And either way, Ultimate Xavier is a different character than 616!Xavier so I don't see how that's relevant.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kitty_tc_69.insanejournal.com
Umm, known mutants were killed merely for existing. Going public was NOT an option.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kitty_tc_69.insanejournal.com
Why does Storm look like she's 12?

Date: 2009-08-12 11:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenmask.insanejournal.com
Well, if he'd told them they might have decided they'd rather live than spend weekends punching Juggernaut or whoever. Or going into space to talk around Charles' old friend about i-forget-what. Or flipping about in the Danger Room.

I certainly wouldn't want to train my life away!

Date: 2009-08-12 11:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goldenbrowngod.insanejournal.com
I haven't been reading X-men forever and was wondering is that the x-babies version of Storm, Nightcrawler and Rouge or have they been deaged?

Date: 2009-08-12 11:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roily_rogue.insanejournal.com
Because she is. Apparently, this is the real Storm and the grown-up is an impostor. I think.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:23 pm (UTC)
ext_396464: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xdoop.insanejournal.com
In Claremont's original run Storm was de-aged into a child by Nanny, before being re-aged after she was captured by the Genoshan forces. I'm guessing Claremont's going to reveal that Storm was never really re-aged, and the adult Storm is an impostor or something.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roily_rogue.insanejournal.com
Storm has. The rest is just Grummett laying the cute on a little thick.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlbarnett.insanejournal.com
when the X-men went to fight Magneto that first time they were completely prepared to do it. They were always designed as combination school/self-police force. And his later teams were mostly adults. Two of his first five have frequently walked away from the team, with the third often functioning mostly as a scientist or being on other hero teams.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlbarnett.insanejournal.com
If the X-men stopped fighting then the Avengers and FF would likely be overwhelmed pretty quickly with all the additional work, so congratulations the life you didn't want to train away just got considerably shorter.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenmask.insanejournal.com
Wull, at least I went out relaxed.

Date: 2009-08-12 11:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlbarnett.insanejournal.com
do they ever point out that a number of mutants would get themselves killed pretty quickly without training?

Date: 2009-08-12 11:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kitty_tc_69.insanejournal.com
I remembered the de-aging thing, I didn't realize this was Storm taken from that point. I had thought maybe, but I didn't remember her being young for very long. It was around the time of the X-Tinction Agenda crossover, right?

Hell I even used that plot as a way to introduce a werecat Storm who would embody Cockrum's original concept of the character as a feline shifter. I just had forgotten Storm had stayed de-aged for any length of time.

Date: 2009-08-13 12:43 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The idea that mutants have a shorter lifespan because their own powers eventually "burn them out" so to speak is actually a neat and logical idea on paper (although sort of a cross-between Todd MacFarlane's Spawn and JMS' Rising Stars). It also, potentially, makes Fabian Cortez the most dangerous mutant alive.

The problem is it doesn't really fit with what Claremont himself established in past continuity. One could reason Xavier was crippled by the Shadow King because Charles' own powers made him more susceptible to injury, but here states he doesn't know how it happened? And does he not remember Magneto was essentially given a whole new body after the Savage Land? And how does that even fit with someone like Wolverine, or Sabretooth, or heck, even Mystique--all of whom are supposed to have healing factors that prolong their lifespan? And I guess John Byrne's story about how Claremont didn't know Apocalypse is a mutant is also correct since, apparently, mutants cannot be immortal by definition. Same with Namor who I suppose because he's "half-Atlantian" somehow doesn't make him a mutant (even though technically it does as the whole Dark X-Men thing proves). And what about mutants who were well past their 60s like Destiny?

Guess this is what we call an example of Claremont saying "Since I made up the rules, I can bend them whenever and however I want to."

--stillanerd
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