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Date: 2009-09-04 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beastman12010.insanejournal.com
That last page...

Dickdickery?

Date: 2009-09-04 06:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.insanejournal.com
Oh god, no. Not the 2-timing retcon.

Date: 2009-09-05 12:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nezchan.insanejournal.com
It wasn't me baby, it was the retcon! Seriously, I don't even have that writer any more!

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From: [identity profile] ashtoreth.insanejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 01:39 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2009-09-04 07:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] runespoor7.insanejournal.com
As far as I'm concerned, the last page and a half of this otherwise decent sequence never existed.

It's like, Andreyko, what were you thinking Dick would be thinking? (Has Dick ever been implied to be anything else than strictly monogamous?)

Date: 2009-09-04 07:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaybee3.insanejournal.com
Ooh, Dick looks really bad here. Forget what he did to Barbara (they did after all get together after this so she must have) but he cheated on Kory - and you know what, that seems out of character no matter how much or how long he's loved Babs.

I know Dick's gotten a reputation as a player but really he's not Roy, he's always been a serial monogamist. I usually like Marc Andreyko's work (Manhunter et al.) but I don't know about this. I assume this issue is all about why she can't marry him after he proposed and all that so DC can get out of tying Dick down (which is lame since he like Wally is the settling down type). But I may have to get this issue, it seems.

That said, Joe Bennett's art looks pretty nice here.

Date: 2009-09-05 01:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashtoreth.insanejournal.com
Everything I've read about Kory is that she wouldn't care. Sex was like affection to her. Possibly her views rubbed off on Dick (Haw haw haw), I know he's been described that way by Devon, and that's why he did the stupid--took a while for Earth cultural mores to get through the Tamaranian free love.

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Date: 2009-09-04 07:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
Bleargh! So many shades of _WRONG_ in this!

Date: 2009-09-05 12:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlroberson.insanejournal.com
Why does Babs have pointy ears on the last page?

Date: 2009-09-04 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chthonicspirit.insanejournal.com
Just another example of what a number of posters have been discussing recently - the way good writers can have incredibly off days. Andreyko was awesome on Manhunter, but jeez louise, this just trashes about ever character that appears in it.

Date: 2009-09-04 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 04nbod.insanejournal.com
Starfire is not a favourite of mine. This is one of the reasons

Date: 2009-09-04 07:28 pm (UTC)
kingrockwell: he's a sexy (Babs Gordon)
From: [personal profile] kingrockwell
Because she got between Babs and Dick? Babs/Dick strikes me the same way as Babsgirl does, it was great while it lasted, but that ship has sailed and is best not returned to the harbor. I like them being old friends with history, like the Origins and Omens story from the last issue of Nightwing.

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Date: 2009-09-04 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] volksjager.insanejournal.com
Hmmm, then if you add the Batman Beyond version where Bruce and Babs hook up ,then you've got trouble. Battle Royal trouble...

Date: 2009-09-04 07:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaybee3.insanejournal.com
Another one of the reasons I didn't like BB. I must be the only person who didn't like the show. Terry's fine but its depiction of Bruce is horrible. I refuse to believe he would turn out like that (or that he would get it on with Babs after she's been with NW).

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From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-04 07:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

" Who's dick grayson ?"

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Re: " Who's dick grayson ?"

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Re: " Who's dick grayson ?"

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Re: " Who's dick grayson ?"

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Re: " Who's dick grayson ?"

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Re: " Who's dick grayson ?"

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Re: " Who's dick grayson ?"

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Re: " Who's dick grayson ?"

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I need to make a list!

Date: 2009-09-04 07:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] parsimonia.insanejournal.com
Gaaaah, it buuurrrrnnnnss!

- "If I'd known..." if he'd known, he would've dumped Kory on the spot? Dick's not that, uh, flighty.
- Makes it seems like both Babs and Dick were just killing time being with Kory and Jason Bard. I don't know, but I really cringe at the thought of the two of them just quietly pining for each other during all that time. It seems like the point of that is to build up the scale of their romance later on, but it ends up diminishing them as individuals who had their own lives, interests and relationships apart from each other.
- Did Ollie and Dinah actually know Babs back then?? I mean, there could potentially have been a connection between Babs and Dinah, given that (I think) their fathers knew each other. But Ollie? (On the other hand, I am becoming more and more interested in seeing Babs and Ollie team up.) They might've known each other as Green Arrow and Batgirl, but...
- Ohhh the awkwardness of that "Look who's here, Babs!" panel. Bruce looks especially uncomfortable, it's hilarious.
- Gaaaaah Dick cheating on Kory with recouperating!Babs gaaaaah wrong no no no no wrong. I mean, it's out of character for Dick to be such an asshole, and part of what led up to Babs and Dick's relationship in the first place was Babs adjusting to the idea of even allowing herself a romantic/sexual relationship after being injured, because as a way of coping she decided to forget about things like that. IIRC it was the "Hunt for Oracle" storyline where they confess how they feel about each other, but she asks for time first, because she has to get used to the idea again. I don't know, I liked the fact that there had been a slower build-up, instead of them just jumping in bed together.

Pretty art, though, for the most part.

Re: I need to make a list!

Date: 2009-09-04 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shadowvalkyrie.insanejournal.com
Word on all of that! (Except the art, which I'm indifferent to.)

Especially:
Makes it seems like both Babs and Dick were just killing time being with Kory and Jason Bard. I don't know, but I really cringe at the thought of the two of them just quietly pining for each other during all that time. It seems like the point of that is to build up the scale of their romance later on, but it ends up diminishing them as individuals who had their own lives, interests and relationships apart from each other.

Re: I need to make a list!

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Re: I need to make a list!

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Re: I need to make a list!

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Re: I need to make a list!

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Re: I need to make a list!

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Re: I need to make a list!

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Re: I need to make a list!

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Re: I need to make a list!

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Re: I need to make a list!

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Date: 2009-09-04 07:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sailorlibra.insanejournal.com
"Babs... I don't think I can ignore the 500-pound gorilla following us." "Is Titano loose again?"

In the superhero world, you really have to be careful with your metaphors.

Date: 2009-09-05 03:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zordboy.insanejournal.com
Personally I thought "Titano" was too vague a reference. I would've gone with Grodd, myself.

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Date: 2009-09-04 07:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] volksjager.insanejournal.com
Seriously, If I were Babs and Starfire had answered the door like that I would have dropped kit and just jumped in.

Date: 2009-09-04 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
The DCU would be a better place for it if Babs had shared your response, but sadly, she's never really come to terms with her attraction to women. Thus, we must endure jealousy, silliness, and Dinah marring Ollie instead.

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Date: 2009-09-04 07:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mullon.insanejournal.com
Joker should have sent a get well card, just for extra evil.

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Date: 2009-09-04 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Man, it's amazing how a dedicated and talented colorist can make Bennett's art almost tolerable.

Date: 2009-09-04 07:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oldmanrain.insanejournal.com
God that's awful, poor Babs, what was his reasoning behind that?

Date: 2009-09-05 01:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] okkult3000.insanejournal.com
There was none.

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Date: 2009-09-04 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shadowvalkyrie.insanejournal.com
Wow, even the dinosaur looks friendly compared to Bruce!

And I agree, this story makes Dick (and to a lesser degree Kory) look bad in seriously OOC ways. And I hate "destined love ruined by misunderstandings and bad timing" storylines! They can be done well, but this is just trite.

The gorilla line amused me, though.

Date: 2009-09-05 08:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] proteus_lives.insanejournal.com
Love your Conan icon! (REH fanboy here!)

Date: 2009-09-04 08:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harmoner.insanejournal.com
Urgh! This issue. Never liked the Babs/Dick ship and hate this retcon.

Date: 2009-09-04 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ccsharumun.insanejournal.com
HATE.

Seriously, how hard is it to create romantic tension and drama without two-timing, love affairs, and cheating and shit?

Date: 2009-09-04 10:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] box_in_the_box.insanejournal.com
Between this, the current state of Spider-man, and all the middle-aged man-children who yearn to see the Superman "love triangle" restored, it's apparently VERY difficult.

One day, I will find the person who's responsible for making even otherwise good writers believe that UST is the best romantic plot ever, and I will beat that person like the Joker beat Jason Todd.

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Date: 2009-09-04 08:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlroberson.insanejournal.com
On one hand: Dick, you bastard.

On the other--wow, she actually knew that? A writer actually remembered that? This is one of those times continuity is a good thing.

Date: 2009-09-05 12:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mysteryfan.insanejournal.com
Dick isn't actually like this, though. This particular version of him only appears this one time, in Nightwing Annual 2. Which is a silly book, with soap opera versions of characters acting completely out of character.

On the other--what are you referring to?

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Date: 2009-09-04 08:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thebigapricot.insanejournal.com
I always thought there should have been a coda to the last panel above where Babs states that she decided right then that she would never again be hurt by being caught off-guard and she would dedicate her life to information gathering and surveillance. What? The retcon'd everything else in this why not that?

Date: 2009-09-04 09:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
Oh, and Marv Wolfman has either, at the same time as this, or just after, confirmed that Dick wasn't a virgin when he started dating Kory. He'd had a retconned in "first experience" with a rather dull generic Asian "bad girl" named Liu, whilst he was still Robin.

Date: 2009-09-04 10:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] box_in_the_box.insanejournal.com
He'd had a retconned in "first experience" with a rather dull generic Asian "bad girl" named Liu, whilst he was still Robin.

Bleah. My fanon says he lost it to Catwoman. While he was still Robin.

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Pussycat, Pussycat, Where Have You Been?

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Date: 2009-09-04 09:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neuhallidae.insanejournal.com
Gotta say, I'm impressed by the sheer size of the pile of crap in this.

Date: 2009-09-04 09:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lyraeinne.insanejournal.com
You know, I think what bothers me most about this story is the assumption that it's actually necessary to make Dick's relationship with Kory such an issue between Dick and Babs in the first place. As if it somehow needs to be measured against (and deemed superior to) every other relationship he's ever had in order to make sense. As if Dick and Babs don't have years of friendship and love and comradeship of their own on which to build a relationship without the need for such a cheap retcon to validate it.

And those last two pages definitely have a spot somewhere in my top five things I wish I could erase from canon for all time. There's no way in which it can make sense for Dick to have such a completely callous disregard for the consequences of his actions or the feelings of either woman he's supposed to love in this instance. Not when he's been shown so many times to be someone who values his relationships with a pretty singular intensity. There's no version of Dick I've ever seen in canon for which that kind of action would make sense.

Date: 2009-09-04 09:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neuhallidae.insanejournal.com
All of your comment, motto.

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Date: 2009-09-04 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottyquick.insanejournal.com
Did anyone else here laugh at Babs' "What did you do to me, now I can't feel my legs?!"?

Date: 2009-09-04 10:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shadeedge.insanejournal.com
Yep. I can't even get angry or annoyed about the rest of it. It's just that good a line.

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Date: 2009-09-04 10:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freddylloyd.insanejournal.com
Six and a half pages of jes' fine, one and a half of never happened.

Date: 2009-09-05 12:07 am (UTC)
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