[identity profile] drsevarius.insanejournal.com posting in [community profile] scans_daily


I got another e-mail from Fred Van Lente, that he's asked me to post.

First off, while I believe he had the best of intentions, the poster "DrSevarius" wrote me under his real name and asked me a question I thought I was answering in private, to him. He posted my response without my permission and without telling me beforehand it was supposed to be for public consumption.

If he had told me that, I would have, first off, made it clear that I am not a Marvel employee. I am not a Marvel spokesperson. I am a freelancer. I speak only for myself. That is just as true for the following statement as the previous one.

Also, if he had told me that, I may have been less coy about the following "Spoiler Alert". Anyone who cares not to have stuff that's in ASM #605 revealed now should avert their eyes.

Amazing Spider-Man #605, which went to the printer weeks ago, makes it clear that Michelle and Chameleon did nothing more than make out in the kitchen scene in #603.

There was no sex, and therefore no rape.

And I'll simply point out that in the scene in ASM #604 when Peter comes home he has no idea why, exactly, Michelle is treating him differently, only that she is. He learns why-- at least partly -- and he responds, in #605.

Thanks for listening. I appreciate it.

Best,
Fred Van Lente

Date: 2009-09-13 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sailorlibra.insanejournal.com
Now the "giggle" part seems slightly less icky. Slightly.

Date: 2009-09-13 09:05 pm (UTC)
ext_396558: (Default)
From: [identity profile] stig.insanejournal.com
*Cough*rewrite*Cough*

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Date: 2009-09-13 09:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freezer818.insanejournal.com
Suuure... And Luke and Leia were always twins. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlehr8d6bdwnwsk)

Date: 2009-09-15 12:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sd_mouser.insanejournal.com
Leia played tonsil hockey with Luke in the same movie that revealed they were brother and sister. (http://sexylosers.com/002.html)

Date: 2009-09-13 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] toasty_fresh.insanejournal.com
Lolling my face off rn.

Also: re the "I didn't know people other than drsevarius were going to read it," why the heck would that change his answer? Idk, that just seems weird to me.

Date: 2009-09-13 09:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fungo_squiggly.insanejournal.com
Why would Fred Van Lente want to speak more carefully when addressing scans_daily, rather than a lone fan?

Possibly because scans_daily is a den of easily-enraged comics geeks who love to pile on with harsh rhetoric whenever a writer puts their foot in their mouth and comes across as sounding flippant or offensive.

I don't even mean that in a bad way... but this is definitely not a place where a comics creator ought to speak without thinking.

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Date: 2009-09-13 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] box_in_the_box.insanejournal.com
I suspect this response was prompted by the fact that we just hit the newswire (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2009/09/13/amazing-spider-man-and-the-rape-that-wasnt/).

Date: 2009-09-13 09:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cyberghostface.insanejournal.com
I just hope Marvel doesn't come down on us now...again.

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Yeah..

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Re: Yeah..

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You're right..

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Date: 2009-09-13 10:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Ow holy shit the comments.

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Date: 2009-09-13 09:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fungo_squiggly.insanejournal.com
Well, dressing up in the Peter's underwear seems like a bit of an odd reaction if she and Peter!Chameleon "only" made out.

But it looks to me that Fred Van Lente has listened to fans' concerns and is trying to walk it back now. Can't he get at least a little credit for that?

Date: 2009-09-13 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] toasty_fresh.insanejournal.com
Idk, I think that'd be better if he had said "I was wrong, and now I'm trying to change it," instead of "No you're wrong lalala I never did that see?"

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Date: 2009-09-13 09:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] box_in_the_box.insanejournal.com
I'll agree that this is a crime of ineptitude rather than ill intent, but man, what a HUGE helping of ineptitude on this issue, and worse yet, it's not even the ONLY racially and sexually insensitive part of the story, when you include Michelle's characterization as one part stereotypical Latina and one part Tsundere, or the equally questionable drunken one-night stand that started this all off in the first place. You'd have to go to FANFIC to find as much fail in one story.

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Date: 2009-09-13 09:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottyquick.insanejournal.com
That makes me a lot happier.

Also, Fred Van Lante is a pretty nice guy it seems like. But who was saying he was a Marvel employee?

Date: 2009-09-13 09:31 pm (UTC)
ext_396524: (Default)
From: [identity profile] stolisomancer.insanejournal.com
Nobody, really, but if he'd known his statements were going to be quoted in a public forum, he'd have given himself more legal cover than he did.

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Date: 2009-09-13 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foxhack.insanejournal.com
I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell we were not supposed to interpret that scene as sex. Especially with the whole wearing Peter's clothes thing. Why would she wear his shirt in the first place?

*shrugs*

I'm still disappointed.

Date: 2009-09-13 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gargoylekitty.insanejournal.com
Same. Nevermind that even without the sex occurring, it doesn't change his stating how he doesn't regard the type of situation that was assumed to have occurred as rape in the first place.

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Date: 2009-09-13 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jeyl.insanejournal.com
"There was no sex, and therefore no rape."

I don't know. The way I see it, this looks to be more of a retcon than an actual progression because most stories that involve this type of build up always lead to intercourse. Heck, half of James Bond's build ups aren't as upfront as that scene was Anyone who said that Bond and his gal didn't have sex would laugh at you.

But what's worse? He didn't take back his diagnosis that you can be someone else and have sex with a person who is usually accustomed to that someone you're mimicking and it still wouldn't be rape! As long as it's not a forceful act it's all good. Who needs consent?

This whole Spiderman universe is too screwed up. Not only are we dealing with writers who say non-consented intercourse is not rape but we also have writers who think it's a good thing to leave your loving marriage by willingly making a deal with the lord of darkness. What fun fruit roll up will they roll up with next?

Date: 2009-09-13 10:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
Well, whatever ones opinion of the story, I'll happily give the Mr Van Lente respect for coming out and explaining things, and then explaining things when things appear to have gone a lot further than he expected.

Date: 2009-09-13 10:09 pm (UTC)

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Yep!

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Except that he's NOT ...

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Re: Except that he's NOT ...

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Re: Except that he's NOT ...

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Re: Except that he's NOT ...

From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-13 11:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

Heh ...

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Re: Heh ...

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Re: Heh ...

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NO ...

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Re: Heh ...

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From: [identity profile] zegim.insanejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-14 08:39 am (UTC) - Expand

Oh, FFS

Date: 2009-09-13 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jazzypom.insanejournal.com
I'll be pretty bummed if we have to decamp again. Ick.

Re: Oh, FFS

Date: 2009-09-13 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] strannik01.insanejournal.com
I'll be pretty bummed if we have to decamp again. Ick.

Unlikely, though always possible. Our relocation has been covered in the comic media already. Besides, Marvel knew about our community long before the old scans_daily got baleeeted. It's just that Peter David's actions compelled Marvel to show it's hand.

Date: 2009-09-13 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandoz_iscariot.insanejournal.com
Well I'm glad that's the case, though I still disagree with the definition of rape Mr. Van Lente gave in his previous comment.

Still, from the scene itself (convenient sliding out of frame, Michelle next being seen in Peter's clothing) and the "coyness" of the first reply, it looks to me that the audience was supposed to think that they'd had sex. And even if that is (thankfully) not the case, it's still disturbing to see the possibility of rape portrayed with that same "Now she thinks she's his girlfriend, oh that Parker luck!" lightness.

Date: 2009-09-13 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Yeah, I don't get why anybody thinks this is redeeming. There's been a huge amount of point-missing in this argument from the beginning. It has very little to do with being upset that the rape happened, and everything to do with being upset with how the concept is being treated by the narrative. Taking out the fact of the rape does not change the way the story treated the idea, and therefore does nothing whatsoever to alleviate or even address the actual problem of "lol rape is screwball comedy fodder" that has people pissed off here.

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Date: 2009-09-14 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zordboy.insanejournal.com
It was nice that he's tried to justify what he said. But still, like everyone else -- this smells more like a hurried retcon than anything else.

And at the end of the day, he still played what was -- at best -- serious sexual assault for laughs, for an issue or so.

I'm sorry, but that's not right. It's just not.

Date: 2009-09-14 12:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] colonel_green.insanejournal.com
On the retcon subject, it'd be hard to judge until #605 comes out, depending on what's in the issue itself; but it would be essentially impossible for them to have changed the content of that issue in the timeframe, so if the issue in question does explicitly back up what he says, one would have to conclude it was intended from the start.

Date: 2009-09-14 12:33 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Approaching this discussion from a different point of view...

I think it is fascinating (and very affirming) that in the brief time since the scan was posted there has been so interest, expressed as polite and civil discussion.

Further, in the brief time since the scan was post here, the author has commented (twice), the issues have been covered at other sites, and a retcon/clarification has already been announced for a future issue.

Perhaps the many contributing voices here have accomplished something today?

That is the view I choose to take from all of this. Honest inquiry and civil discourse CAN affect change (slow, slight and incremental though it might be).

Good work everyone! Good show!

Date: 2009-09-14 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kaileighblue.insanejournal.com
How could it have possibly effected it other than the writer now choosing not to talk to anyone for fear of having it posted. Scripts have been done. Art has been done. No one here effected any of the story.

This whole complaint fest made the author reveal his own story. That's gotta suck.

Date: 2009-09-14 12:57 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Well, I'm glad Van Lente clarified things, although it still is case of really bad storytelling regardless. Also, if there was no sex involved, it actually makes Michelle's behavior afterward even MORE over-the-top and insane. You have her contemplating being "Mrs. Michelle Parker" in her notepad; wearing Peter's T-shirt and boxers; planning to buy him new clothes after tossing out his old ones; setting schedules for when he goes to bed, how long their "quality time" must be, and when they must have "snuggle time;" arranging a date to meet her parents--all from a make-out session on the kitchen floor where no sex took place? I mean, I've heard of people taking relationships too fast but DAMN!

--stillanerd

Date: 2009-09-14 04:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hyperactivator.insanejournal.com
What about the drunken hook up? Did you forget that?

Date: 2009-09-14 06:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] geoffsebesta.insanejournal.com
Fred Van Lente is a hell of a nice guy.

I take him at his word, without reservation.

I would not be at all surprised to hear that this controversy causes him personal pain.

That's all I have to say about this.

Date: 2009-09-14 07:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] menagerie.insanejournal.com
This is kind of why I didn't react one way or another in the first place. I don't tend to stop in the middle of a story out of offense at what a writer has done very often, but rather I read the whole story, and if it's still offensive because nothing useful came about because of it/was done with it/etc, then I can certainly see the issue. I've kind of had enough fan-rage to last me a few years in the past few months here I think.

Date: 2009-09-15 05:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kaileighblue.insanejournal.com
This, lots of it. I tried to post a similar comment the other day but Insanejournal wouldn't have it.

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