The new Justice League of America

[trelas.insanejournal.com]

As some of you may know, they showed the new line-up for the JLA under James Robinson in a recent ad and since I haven't seen it around here yet, so I thought I would share it and some thoughts I had about the new roster. I initially thought about doing at our sister site, as this post has a lot of words for a single image, but I also wanted to share the page as well. So I'm posting the page first before going to my thoughts on it. I would also recommend reading this Newsarama post, as it has great thoughts and comments on it: http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/09/17/hey-its-time-to-dissect-the-justice-league-roster-again/.

So, without further ado, the roster for the new JLA, sorry about the quality:



Now my primary reaction this is that I'm extremely confused on what DC is trying to achieve with this roster, and I'm not even being sarcastic with that comment. For those not familiar with the characters and who didn't read the Newsarama link above, the new League will consist of:

-Green Lantern Hal Jordan
-Green Arrow Oliver Queen
-Ray Palmer, formerly known as the Atom.
-Mon-El, a Silver Age character who recently returned to modern canon and can be currently seen in Superman instead of Superman. Yeah, it's a bit weird. Anyway a Daxamite, so he has the same powers as Superman, but has a deadly allergy to lead. Currently has a temporary immunity to it.
-Donna Troy. Not even going to try to explain her.
-The Dick Grayson Batman. Probably doesn't need explaining.
-Cyborg and Starfire, recently in Titans. Apparantely DC has decided to bury that book.
-Doctor Light, originally appearad in CoIE. Light-based powers, quite powerful.
-Congo Bill and Guardian, characters recently introduced back to modern canon from the Golden Age. Can't even begin to explain them, but Wikipedia can.

The reason for my confusion is that I'm truly having difficulties seeing how they are going to market/push this to a higher sales figure. The thing is that the JLA sales have always been uneven, with one approach peaking at a point, then declining as happens with every title until they manage to again find a new angle. However, even after all these years people often quite fondly speak of the League of Gods and I think it's partially because it finally kind of found a way to make JLA significant, to make it big and to give a clear position in the DCU. They became the big guys, they were the major leagues, the heroes who made the gods themselves cry. With the new League after OYL, they still clung that concept, but the team was clearly not those guys anymore. They had the power hitters, it wasn't that, but about half of the team didn't have the power level or the established to be there. This lead to the writers having the almost impossible of situation of trying to write those big threats, yet have the people who clearly didn't belong on that front line to be significant, to have a role in it. In short DC decided to try to push B- and C-level characters through the JLA. Now in itself that wasn't new, Morrison, Waid and Kelly all did that during their reigns with Plastic Man and, on a certain level, John Stewart being the most famous results. However what was different with them was that while those characters played a role, it was still clearly the League of Gods, with the pushed characters being on that power level and the main focus still on the interactions between the established characters. The OYL JLA instead became about the B- and C-level characters, their soap opera like interactions and really, really weird plot structures that almost always fizzled or led to other miniseries. Yes, there were reasons for that, some good and some bad, but the sales were continuisly sliding and it is hard to argue that the lack of significance or stability weren't hurting the title. These are of course simply my opinions, of course, as always.

So DC decides to go with this. First of all not only are there no members in the League presented here who were in the League of Gods, there are actually no members from the prior JLA it is replacing. It's a completely new roster with no legacy aspect, which is weird in itself. Secondly, I can only think of two members of the cast qualifying as big name draws: Dick Grayson and Hal Jordan. Now both are involved currently in stories that are selling pretty well, but neither has been tested as someone who can carry a team title. Although I am biased, I can see Dick Grayson being succesful on that front, especially since this is the first title to expand he's role as Batman on the superhero front, but Cry for Justice, which was marketed heavily as Jordan's JLA, hasn't had the expectional numbers the hype was going for, although sales were somewhat solid, so he is a bit of a question mark. Third, the roster sends a really mixed signal as it is clearly going for some sort of legacy/graduation wibe with the inclusion of the new Trinity and former Titans, but graduation by whose standards. Neither Jordan or Queen have been established as leader-figures in the superhero community and they sure as hell don't promote and acknowledge the next generation. There's no welcome from the previous generation, as they aren't included in the new roster. Besides, by including them and Palmer in to the current League, they basically push aside the legacy members they have. Fourth, there has been no build-up recently for Troy to be a credible successor for Diana and Mon-El is a really weird choice there, as if it is a legacy aspect, shouldn't it be Kara and not the guy whose sidelined even in his own title, sorry, the Superman title and who, at least based on what I've read, hasn't really set the fan community on fire as an independent character.

My main annoyance with the cast, however, is that of the eleven characters, Robinson is at the moment writing six, including the really weird choices to team, namely Congo Bill, The Guardian, Mon-El, Hal Jordan, Oliver Queen and Ray Palmer. Basically, this isn't the JLA, this is the Robinson League. Now it is justified to point out that Morrison and Meltzer did the same thing, but not to this extent or prior engagement with the characters. This is where editorial should have put their foot down and make Robinson to create a roster that can further expanded and continued by later writers instead of just giving him an opportunity to continue writing characters he already has a crush on and is already writing. I know this a matter of opinion and I am biased on this, but it just kind of irked me.

The truth is that in the end it is the sales which decide the fate of this team and Robinson's brave new take on the team and it is hard to truly speculate on it, considering the first issue hasn't even been published yet. Truthfully, I hope it's good, I would like to see JLA again rise to the prominence it once had, but this roster and Robinson's previous track record with big titles isn't filling me with a lot of confidence on the matter. So here I have babbled this far and shall end it now, if someone read it to here, I hope I wasn't too boring.

Comments

[ashtoreth.insanejournal.com]

Eh. It comes off as if Black Canary found Hal leading a team after he ranted about the JLA being useless and told him that he WAS leading a JLA version, and if he wouldn't support her leadership, she'd at least support his. Then all the regulars stayed away because Hal pushed them away at the very beginning of Cry.

I don't mind a second stringer group, I'm really tired of the same old line up of Gods. Shield and Cyborg are odd choices, tho.

And Hal looks oddly like Kyle here.

[trelas.insanejournal.com]

As I said, opinions vary. I guess that my problem isn't that they decided to go with another direction, it's that they are still contextually treating this as the big league, as the big guys, but they clearly aren't and can't handle threats that they did. It's basically DC trying to force together two versions of the League that don't mix instead of just clearly going with one version.

[colonel_green.insanejournal.com]

In terms of power, these guys stack up pretty well with the characters they're legacies/subs for. Dick and Donna are perfectly acceptable replacements for Clark and Diana in terms of powers and skills.

I talk too much.

[sailorlibra.insanejournal.com]

Except... They're not.
A lot of the JLA arcs concerning Wonder Woman focus on her affinity with the truth and her empathy. As far as I know, Donna lacks Diana's strong connection with the truth and usually isn't portrayed as being as empathetic as her big sis. (And right now she's practicing at being Bitchy McBitch, though hopefully that will be over soon.) Also, I would argue that Diana is simply a better fighter.
Dick makes an acceptable substitute for Bruce in the batbooks--well, actually, he doesn't, but that's because of reasons unrelated to his abilities--but wouldn't do in JLA. In the batbooks, Batman's main thing is to stop crime, which is sometime Dick could probably do with his eyes closed. (Well, not the Arkham gang.) In JLA and similar titles, the focus is more on Batman's amazing detective abilities. Which Nightwing doesn't have. He is smart, though, and my impression of him is as an amazing leader, but I don't think he can compete with the world's greatest detective. He would make a better replacement for Superman, though he lacks the traditional superpowers, obviously.

Re: I talk too much.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

Donna is a magical clone of Diana, she has as much affinity with the truth as Diana does, just doesn't go ON and ON and ON about it.

Dick has been fighting the Arkham rogues since before he hit puberty, so they're ahrdly news to him,. I'm not sure why you think he's isn't an above average detective, but he is he's trained by Batman, and was classed by DC as being in the top 5 in the world or so, but again, doesn't make as big deal out of it as he has other skills he values as much. Tim is a more natural detective, but Dick has years of experience.

[bluefall.insanejournal.com]

Donna has never really been portrayed as Diana's equal, and she's shy a large number of Diana's key talents.

On the other hand, League!Diana has seldom been portrayed as her own equal, and rarely actually uses any of those talents in a team setting, so that one probably works out okay anyway.

Mon's probably weaker than Clark just because Clark gets an extra zero by virtue of Superman - if he's an order of magnitude more mighty than every other kryptonian (and he is - when have Peej or Kara ever been considered remotely in his league?), he's an order of magnitude more mighty than a daxamite. But, again, Clark's often played down from the superspeed planet-smashing (much less so than Diana, of course, but his skillset is much more suited to conventional superheroics, so some of that is to be expected), so that shouldn't make much of a difference to the writing.

It's Dick I'd worry about. Logically and stat-wise he should be a far better fit than Bruce ever was, but where Bruce usually gets two or three extra zeros in a team setting, Dick has a tendency to get his lopped off on a regular basis.

Light and Lantern are first-tier powerhouses, though, and Starfire and Cyborg fluctuate a lot but are generally a fair match for Aquaman/Plastic Man/Hawkman types. The team's got punch, certainly. It's just seriously lacking in iconography.

[interrobamf.insanejournal.com]

when have ... Kara ever been considered remotely in his league

Loeb's horrible Supergirl series. I shall speak no further about it.

[bluefall.insanejournal.com]

Yeah, but even then they made a point at the end of how it was all fake and Clark had been holding back all along and the second he actually felt like it he totally flattened her.

[jlbarnett.insanejournal.com]

Clark is bigger than her. I mean with flight and heat vision and senses they're generally equal.

Isn't Non generally portrayed as physically stronger than him?

[deepspaceartist.insanejournal.com]

Yeah, a fistfight between Clark and Kara should have the same result as a man who grew up on a farm and still stays in shape against an 18-year old girl. Clark just has more muscle mass. In terms of pure strength with nothing being held back, Clark winning against Kara is pretty reasonable.

[bluefall.insanejournal.com]

Well, certainly. He's got experience on her, too - he's not actually a trained martial artist, but he's spent a lot of his life fighting and knows his way around a punch better than her. He and Peej should be a pretty even match, but both of them should easily outclass just-off-the-rocket Kara.

The way the confrontation played out in the comic, though, was completely crass, talentless, shitty writing, that made every character involved look bad. It's not badass for a grown man to beat down an 18-year-old girl, for exactly those reasons; it doesn't make Superman look particularly heroic to make him a smug asshole who crows over a one-sided obliteration of his own cousin; it doesn't make Supergirl particularly relatable or sympathetic to make her a smug prick about her superiority up until then, or particularly viable as a hero to be so completely obliterated by an opponent she will never, ever be able to rematch and beat; it doesn't make any of the adult heroes look like they've even got a brain in their head that any of this was allowed to go on so long if Clark could always have stopped it. "Superman totally obliterates Supergirl and puts her permanently in her place" is just a stupid concept, there's no way it can come off well and no reason that you should ever write that scenario.

[deepspaceartist.insanejournal.com]

Ah. I hadn't actually read the comic in question. I was just thinking about it from a logical standpoint.

[sun3457.livejournal.com (from insanejournal.com)]

Just a point, Superman kind of is a trained martial artist he just doesn't need to use it much. He's trained with Wildcat and Batman at least, and if I'm not mistaken he used that expertise recently in the World of New Krypton stuff to make a point against one of his Military Guild "comrades".

But yeah, that whole Superman schooling Supergirl stuff was capital "B" BAD.

[unknownscribler.insanejournal.com]

On the other hand, League!Diana has seldom been portrayed as her own equal, and rarely actually uses any of those talents in a team setting, so that one probably works out okay anyway.

The really irritating thing is that with Bruce gone, there's now absolutely no meta reason to stop Diana from stepping up as the team's tactical mastermind. Dick has no reason to be on the JLA roster, which thus allows you to put emphasis on Ollie as the bad-ass normal, synergising with the character's current Smallville duties.

[darkknightjrk.insanejournal.com]

"Cyborg are odd choices, tho"

Not really--I seem to recall him being considered at the beginning of the Melzer run, but they decided not to because they figured he'd stay commited to the Titans--but, with three or so of them already on the team...

[ashtoreth.insanejournal.com]

Also makes a strong science faction for this group. Cyborg, Atom, Dr. Light..

I think its just that so many of them haven't worked together. Or with strange adults. It does come across as a grabbag that will probably have lots of internal issues. I don't expect it to be successful, but like those previous second string runs, the experience will strengthen all of them individually and broaden them as characters.