Jason and Dick chat

[benicio127.insanejournal.com]

A moment between these two that doesn't involve either getting their junk punched.

I don't know about you, but I would say this is a clear anti-hero moment for Jason. (And then along came ... well, you know.)



From Outsiders 44 & 45. Eight scans.

 Is that last panel pretty much a slasher's fantasy or what?



















As written by Winick, pre- BftC, (obviously, since now Jason eats babies or the souls of young cherubic children or something.)

Comments

[lipsofpoison.insanejournal.com]

Winick Jason. Accept no substitutes.

[aaron_bourque.insanejournal.com]

. . .

Right. This is the man who made Jason Todd a villain. Sure, anti-villain, but still.

When the whole point of the Death In The Family storyline would have been, if Jay lived, that Jay got over his ruthlessness.

[daggerpen.insanejournal.com]

MOTTO.

[bluefall.insanejournal.com]

I still say Jason should have got his redemption leading the Outsiders instead of that job going to Bats or Dick or Alfred. You want "proactive team who'll cross lines other teams won't," you don't want either of those first two in charge, but Jason fits the bill pretty damn well, and the more edgy, callous, in-it-for-the-money types that made up much of the team at the time would have been a good group to gain Jason's skewed sense of trust and respect and create the family support he needs without demanding he change too quickly (but still with enough positive influence and moral righteousness that he'd slowly level out and realign with the white hats given time).

third time's the charm

[volksjager.insanejournal.com]

I would agree. Skipped "battle for the cowl" Is Jason "dead" (again) ????

[yaseen101.insanejournal.com]

My idea for Jason involved him either a) becoming a member of the Suicide Squad just to fuck with Bruce's head or b) becoming Red Robin and traveling around Europe fighting ninja's after Bruce's death. The 'pro-active team who crosses the line that other teams won't' fits more with the SS than the Outsiders. Besides my ideas for the Outsiders is that while the JLA are the 'League of Gods', the Outsiders are the 'badass normals of the DCU' (with a few metas like Black Lightning and Grace) who works behind the spotlight.

[daggerpen.insanejournal.com]

Yes, please. That would've been so</iM much better.

[retro_nouveau.insanejournal.com]

Yay, this idea has merit. Jason's scowling face is in the dictionary under the word "outsider", and he's desperate for a sense of belonging.

I also want to give Cass something to do, and since she's already been there... I could see Jason approaching Cass out of respect, and Cass wanting to rejoin the Outsiders to be back in action while being away from Gotham for a while. He admires her fighting, she appreciates his way with words (she likes snarky people). Until she can be Batgirl again, let's have her take the name "Blackbird", the code name that Babs used for Bruce when he went down in Hush -- a way for Cass to say "I'm Batgirl" at the same time she's putting distance between herself and Bat memories. Cass instantly carries out Jason's orders most of the time, but it's not infrequently that she says "no" (and she doesn't say any more than just "no"). Being bluntly contradicted enrages him at first, but of course it turns out she's always right because of her incredible perceptiveness. It eventually helps him (it deserves to be said again) "level out and realign with the white hats". I can also see Jason getting Neapolitan ice cream from refrigerator when Cass walks in to the kitchen for some orange juice.

[ladymirth.insanejournal.com]

That would have been a plausible storyline, but I always get the sense that Jason, out of all Bruce's proteges, works least well in a team and always functions best as a lone wolf. He's a bit like pre-Birds Huntress in that way - too many rage and authority issues to function well within a team, but always desperately lonely and seeking approval and acceptance - which is again hindered by his issues.

[unknownscribler.insanejournal.com]

This.

[lipsofpoison.insanejournal.com]

Jay as an outsider would be spot on perfect.

[toasty_fresh.insanejournal.com]

AND THEN JASON AND DICK MADE OUT.



. . . What?

(Also I love Jason's little pouty face in that last scan, lol)

[benicio127.insanejournal.com]

AND THEN JASON AND DICK MADE OUT.

I know, right? Man, the subtext is killing me on that one.

[felinephoenix.insanejournal.com]

Seriously.

Just get a room already, Robins.

[retro_nouveau.insanejournal.com]

So cool - Jay got within 10 feet of Nightwing undetected.

His squiggly dagger looks like the squiggly sword Diana got from Beowulf.

[lipsofpoison.insanejournal.com]

I like the fact he has a keris blade as a good luck charm.

[shadowpsykie.insanejournal.com]

*sigh* I miss this Jason....

[ladymirth.insanejournal.com]

The Bats: still the most dysfunctional superhero family ever.

♥♥♥

Slashy subext is slashy. I am however, sorely disappointed that Jason does not really say what he is depicted saying in the preview image. I love it when Bruce gets called "Dad", and he's right, Dickie IS his favourite. Eldest children generally are favoured. *is smug eldest child*

[runespoor7.insanejournal.com]

"You never shut up!"

Uh, Jason? Look at yourself, will ya. Ever since you came back, you're not exactly the person most justified in making that sort of comment.

But that's your problem. You don't know yourself.

Jason as information broker makes me wish for Babs/Jason interaction so bad. He should at least think about her, even if he doesn't try to see her and she's got better things to do.

[kagome654.insanejournal.com]

Yeah, Jason's about as gabby as Spidey or Deadpool ('Oh my goodness gracious, I've been bamboozled!'). Most Robins tend to be.

Except Damian, he's too busy being all ninja like and trying to be treated seriously.

[lyraeinne.insanejournal.com]

I'd still classify him more misguided villain than anti-hero, but yeah, this is definitely a hell of a lot better than the Jason we're getting now. I'm probably the only one, but I'm really not interested in seeing him allowed any kind of redemption, or worse, phased back into the Batfamily in a more traditional sense. This has become his place in the mythos, and it's one he's uniquely suited to when written by an author who can provide him with decent motivations that go beyond "Waah, Daddy loves Dickie and Timmy more than meeeee!!" I like him fucked up and pretty much irredeemably misguided. I think there are ways to do that without the necessity shooting ten-year-olds and sticking batarangs into his brothers.

[benicio127.insanejournal.com]

Yeaaaaah.... Except that when we've seen him written as a VILLAIN RAR! he's written cliche, generic and having no believable reason for a true fall from grace.

Jason as an anti-hero is so much better. He's too complex to be shoved into the cliched villain he's been written as.
Plus, as an anti-hero, it gives him a lot more character depth.

Batman already has a villain who knows him as Bruce Wayne (Hush) and one that he feels he failed (Two-Face.) Why put Jason in the Rogues' Gallery unless you want to completely tear Bats' apart (which it would, I'm sure. If I were Batman, that would probably be one of the last straws. The belief that he failed him so much that he became a villain.)

Plus there's just so much more you can do with an anti-hero vs. a villain. Marvel at least has a number of popular anti-heroes who sell tons of books. (Wolverine, Deadpool, Punisher, etc.)

[jesidres.insanejournal.com]

Way too distracted by the chins in this. Bleh.

[janegray.insanejournal.com]

Great moment :D

Pity I don't like the art. Two of the hottest boys of the DCU holding each other and with their faces inches apart, and they look ugly * pouts*

[benicio127.insanejournal.com]

Jason looks good in the last page. It's just Dick who looks ... like he had one too many Hostess Cakes. And it's all in the chin area.

[eligibility.insanejournal.com]

I have no idea how Jason - with all of his terrible characterization and butchering and abrasive personality, manages to be shippable with practically every Robin, Donna Troy, Kyle Rayner, and probably Babs if he ever met her. And Bruce, if you want to get into that.

Like, really, how does this happpen.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

Jason and Donna Troy just never remotely works for me as a pairing, not even for a moment.

And Babs? Babs? Seriously? She would tear him a new arsehole and produce enough scathing put downs to leave him sobbing for his (dead) mommy within five minutes.

Jason and Kyle seems a rather random pairing, I don't think they've even met, have they?

[pepperspray101.insanejournal.com]

And now Jason's all crazy and not funny. *sighs* What a waste. >_