Jason and Dick chat

[benicio127.insanejournal.com]

A moment between these two that doesn't involve either getting their junk punched.

I don't know about you, but I would say this is a clear anti-hero moment for Jason. (And then along came ... well, you know.)



From Outsiders 44 & 45. Eight scans.

 Is that last panel pretty much a slasher's fantasy or what?



















As written by Winick, pre- BftC, (obviously, since now Jason eats babies or the souls of young cherubic children or something.)

Comments

[bluefall.insanejournal.com]

I still say Jason should have got his redemption leading the Outsiders instead of that job going to Bats or Dick or Alfred. You want "proactive team who'll cross lines other teams won't," you don't want either of those first two in charge, but Jason fits the bill pretty damn well, and the more edgy, callous, in-it-for-the-money types that made up much of the team at the time would have been a good group to gain Jason's skewed sense of trust and respect and create the family support he needs without demanding he change too quickly (but still with enough positive influence and moral righteousness that he'd slowly level out and realign with the white hats given time).

third time's the charm

[volksjager.insanejournal.com]

I would agree. Skipped "battle for the cowl" Is Jason "dead" (again) ????

[yaseen101.insanejournal.com]

More like they 'put him on the bus'. According to DC they are going to treat Jason as being dead at the moment till someone comes up with a good idea on what to do with him.

[mysteryfan.insanejournal.com]

Or, you know, possibly sticks him in a comic that's coming out right now.

[yaseen101.insanejournal.com]

My idea for Jason involved him either a) becoming a member of the Suicide Squad just to fuck with Bruce's head or b) becoming Red Robin and traveling around Europe fighting ninja's after Bruce's death. The 'pro-active team who crosses the line that other teams won't' fits more with the SS than the Outsiders. Besides my ideas for the Outsiders is that while the JLA are the 'League of Gods', the Outsiders are the 'badass normals of the DCU' (with a few metas like Black Lightning and Grace) who works behind the spotlight.

[daggerpen.insanejournal.com]

Yes, please. That would've been so</iM much better.

[retro_nouveau.insanejournal.com]

Yay, this idea has merit. Jason's scowling face is in the dictionary under the word "outsider", and he's desperate for a sense of belonging.

I also want to give Cass something to do, and since she's already been there... I could see Jason approaching Cass out of respect, and Cass wanting to rejoin the Outsiders to be back in action while being away from Gotham for a while. He admires her fighting, she appreciates his way with words (she likes snarky people). Until she can be Batgirl again, let's have her take the name "Blackbird", the code name that Babs used for Bruce when he went down in Hush -- a way for Cass to say "I'm Batgirl" at the same time she's putting distance between herself and Bat memories. Cass instantly carries out Jason's orders most of the time, but it's not infrequently that she says "no" (and she doesn't say any more than just "no"). Being bluntly contradicted enrages him at first, but of course it turns out she's always right because of her incredible perceptiveness. It eventually helps him (it deserves to be said again) "level out and realign with the white hats". I can also see Jason getting Neapolitan ice cream from refrigerator when Cass walks in to the kitchen for some orange juice.

[jaybee3.insanejournal.com]

Oh I love the name of "Blackbird" for Cass (if she can't be Batgirl) particularly since it connects her to Bruce and Babs ("Bird" of Prey, even if that name was hardly used in the actual title) and let's face it those are the two people she's most connected with in the world (outside of Steph, Cain and maybe Shiva).

It's funny the scan of Bruce taking Cass to Jason's grave was just posted a few days ago and yet there has never been any real scene of Cass and Jason together despite the fact that they are the black sheeps of the Bat-clan - the ones who have broken the "code" of killing (yes I know Beechan!Cass is OOC but it happened until the next Crisis ret-cons it away). Cass might be able to identify with Jason more than Dick or Tim.

[benicio127.insanejournal.com]

Damian's killed (from Batman & Son tpb I have...) and he was still able to be Robin...

[jaybee3.insanejournal.com]

Point taken but then Damien seems to get away with everything.

[unknownscribler.insanejournal.com]

Blood trumps all.

[shadowvalkyrie.insanejournal.com]

Blood Writer favouritism trumps it all.

There, fixed that for you.

[unknownscribler.insanejournal.com]

That's a horrible idea: no way should Cass ever be in a team that has a licence to kill in its mandate.

[retro_nouveau.insanejournal.com]

Ugh, that's news to me. Changes everything, I don't want anyone I like in there, especially trigger-happy Todd. Don't know how "Batman and the Outsiders" came to this...

[unknownscribler.insanejournal.com]

If Todd's in charge of the team, then killing definitely becomes part of their mandate

[retro_nouveau.insanejournal.com]

See, that's why I want Cass on the team. Out comes the hardware, and out go the lights. Forty minutes later, Jay wakes up with 18 cybernetically enhanced ninjas also out cold and Cass putting a wet cloth on his forehead. Cass lets Jay think he's in charge ... up to a point. :D

[pepperspray101.insanejournal.com]

THIS. YES. PLEASE. I WANT. *cries cuz it would've been PERFECT and it didn't happen*


On the other hand...some folks think they would've been good as anti-heroes that killed. Please read Point 3 and the comments that followed... (http://www.4thletter.net/2008/10/comics-that-should-be-but-shant-be/)

[retro_nouveau.insanejournal.com]

Cool ideas! But if you want to hang out in the Batcave, you have to check the guns at the door...

I would really like it if Jason struggles constantly with the temptation of dropping scum from the top of the nearest skyscraper, even if he goes too far once in a while and sends one to the morgue. Cass should be completely done with killing, and it's why she would be great for Jason to have around -- she's been there, and she can help him. My main wish is to see Alfred bring out the turkey one grand Thanksgiving day (after Tim brings Bruce back), and all six former and current Batkids are at the table: Babs, Dick, Jason, Tim, Cass, and Steph. (Damian who?)

Heh, kd_the_movie's new series idea is the last comment, I thought it looked familiar.

[kd_the_movie.insanejournal.com]

yeah...i think i've pitched this everywhere EXCEPT dc's main office.....

[kd_the_movie.insanejournal.com]

I've long had the idea to put Jason, Cass, Ryan Choi, Mercy Graves, and Jean Paul Valley on the same team.

It would have a Cowboy Bebop/Firefly/outlaw star feel with the group being a rag-tag group of mercenaries. Jay being the de facto leader and hothead, Cass as the stealth-y ninja type, Ryan as the brains, JP as the muscle (and having a nine-tailed fox thing going on with his Azrael personality) and Mercy as the getaway driver/gunslinger. I've got more ideas, but it's too much to list.....

But then Secret Six got relaunched as an ongoing and BftC happened so yeah that idea become superfluous and constrained but current characterization.

[ladymirth.insanejournal.com]

That would have been a plausible storyline, but I always get the sense that Jason, out of all Bruce's proteges, works least well in a team and always functions best as a lone wolf. He's a bit like pre-Birds Huntress in that way - too many rage and authority issues to function well within a team, but always desperately lonely and seeking approval and acceptance - which is again hindered by his issues.

[unknownscribler.insanejournal.com]

This.

[lipsofpoison.insanejournal.com]

Jay as an outsider would be spot on perfect.