“ I brought up critics only to counter the narrative that it was universally loved. All I'm saying is that every time, you bring up the critics, and given that, it is important to bring up that the critics love is not universal. It can't keep being used as a defence”
I never said it was universally loved but you said “ there was a reason that basically every critic I followed laughed at the movie the moment they got a chance to watch it” and “ then so many negative reviews as soon as it got to critics at large” as if the film was largely reviled when the reaction was more positive than not.
“ I bring up a big recurring pattern of female characters being the targets of white male rage, and you have some nitpicks, but there's no actual counter argument. I know I've written a lot, but it is hard to have an actual conversation”
No offense but you’re writing pages of material, I can’t read/respond to everything. Most of it is your subjective interpretation so there’s not much to say besides ‘I disagree’. I.e. you keep on saying that the film positions Joker as a heroic figure or justified or that woman are the real villains and there’s not much I can say besides I disagree. In my opinion I don’t think Joker murdering his mother was supposed to be an justifiable scene nor do I think the film was setting up Thomas as sympathetic at all. A lot of it is jumping to conclusions that imo weren’t intended or suggested. I.e. drawing inspiration from real life incidents does not mean the film is trying to redeem them especially when the context is different.
In my opinion, if the film wanted us to hate anyone it was De Niro who Arthur looks up to as a father figure and then he humiliates him on live television. That, I could see as 'justifiable' in the context of the narrative where the film sets him up as someone you want to see die. Tarantino even talks about that here.
no subject
I never said it was universally loved but you said “ there was a reason that basically every critic I followed laughed at the movie the moment they got a chance to watch it” and “ then so many negative reviews as soon as it got to critics at large” as if the film was largely reviled when the reaction was more positive than not.
“ I bring up a big recurring pattern of female characters being the targets of white male rage, and you have some nitpicks, but there's no actual counter argument. I know I've written a lot, but it is hard to have an actual conversation”
No offense but you’re writing pages of material, I can’t read/respond to everything. Most of it is your subjective interpretation so there’s not much to say besides ‘I disagree’. I.e. you keep on saying that the film positions Joker as a heroic figure or justified or that woman are the real villains and there’s not much I can say besides I disagree. In my opinion I don’t think Joker murdering his mother was supposed to be an justifiable scene nor do I think the film was setting up Thomas as sympathetic at all. A lot of it is jumping to conclusions that imo weren’t intended or suggested. I.e. drawing inspiration from real life incidents does not mean the film is trying to redeem them especially when the context is different.
In my opinion, if the film wanted us to hate anyone it was De Niro who Arthur looks up to as a father figure and then he humiliates him on live television. That, I could see as 'justifiable' in the context of the narrative where the film sets him up as someone you want to see die. Tarantino even talks about that here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB3aZeijvZ0