Fitting Post..

Date: 2009-04-10 09:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
What with today being a "Christian" holiday an' all..

Date: 2009-04-10 09:28 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
American Evangelicals. Letting Christanity look stupid since 1620.

Date: 2009-04-10 09:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I like how Jerry is totally sober at first but takes the time to become drunk and/or stoned off-panel just before driving.

Incidently, I'm about the lamest, most whitebread person ever. But these old Archie strips always make me want to become some kind of drunken drugged-up Satan-worshipping pervert. Wonder why that is?

Date: 2009-04-10 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
And then Archie went home and oppressed the shit out of Betty.

Date: 2009-04-10 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Ah yes. This reminds me of all the times I've spoken to actual Christians who joyfully recount fatal car wrecks that led to one person considering Christianity. God is so great the way he caused that wreck and injured all those people because now my sister in law is considering coming to church with me next week!

Date: 2009-04-10 09:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Man, non-believers are just like the black dude or the sexing co-eds in horror films; you know the moment you lay eyes on them that they're screwed one way or another.

Date: 2009-04-10 10:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yes, because everyone who drinks also drives home drunk...from school.

Date: 2009-04-10 10:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Where do I sign up for the Church of Reggie?

Date: 2009-04-10 10:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Perhaps the message should be "Become Christian and you too can be drawn in a cartoony style! Unless you're black. You get an afro instead."

Date: 2009-04-10 10:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yup, nothing as sincere and full of conviction as a deathbed conversion. Fear: the best possible reason to do anything, including making huge decisions about faith and lifestyle. I know if I were a loving deity, so concerned with the welfare of humanity that I killed off my own son for their sake, I would definitely want fear to be the thing that brings them to my doorstep.

Happy bunnychrist holliday everyone! :D

Date: 2009-04-10 11:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
This was fun.

"And we're watching another miracle right now!"
Girls about to make out?

Seriously that conversion scene is creepy as hell, especially how we don't see everything that's going on. There could be impregnation/sexxins/druggings/dropping aliens in ears going on!

Stop staring at me at the end. Stop iiiit!

Date: 2009-04-10 11:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Debbie and Betty kiss all ready

Date: 2009-04-10 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Anyone notice that Jerry and Debbie are drawn in a markedly different way than the usual Archie house style? Is Hartley making a subliminal suggestion that nonbelievers are a different species from believers like Archie and Betty, or am I reading too much into this?

Date: 2009-04-10 11:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
This is almost as subtle as the hippie-baby-in-the-bathtub episode of Dragnet.

Date: 2009-04-10 12:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
This would have been a perfectly good story if it hadn't shoved overt religious elements in our face. I mean, Hartley could have had Debbie turn over a new leaf without shoving Christian dogma down our throats. But no, the only good people are Christian evangelists who can't let a single sentence go by without mentioning God.

Date: 2009-04-10 01:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Debbie: "I want to change my life style...Betty, having you on top of my like this has made me realize something...I'm not meant to be a druggie, I'm a lesbian!"

Date: 2009-04-10 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
This is a really disgusting story, as many have mentioned, but I can't help but notice that the "Debbie" character is hot as all hell. Even when she's "dying", she's drawn sexily, with the smoky eyes and the way her chest is emphasized in almost every panel she's in. By contrast, "good girl" Betty is pretty but plain, even a little frumpy, and quite sexless.

I'm not sure if that's deliberate, and if it is (which it probably is) what message is it sending? Humans respond to sexy. We like it. We want to be around it, want to be like it. That's natural. Which means either the artist wants us to like Debbie better and is being a little subversive with some under-the-radar subtext ("evil is sexy", anyone?), or her sexiness is supposed to mark her as "evil" and we're supposed to condemn her for it and the message backfires.

Either way, there's no question which character I sympathize with more, and it's all down to how they're drawn.

Date: 2009-04-10 06:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I never knew Archies use to be so preachy. that must have changed in the late 80's 90's when I started to read them. I don't even recall the reprints being so preachy.

Date: 2009-04-10 07:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
"A new life has begun?" Holy crap. Betty just got Debbie pregnant.

...And based on Debbie's drunken grin and rolled-back eyes, I think she enjoyed it. Or that might be the concussion.

This makes me miss the posts I did in the old comm of the pages from "Archie's Parables." I wonder if it's time to re-post them?

Date: 2009-04-10 07:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
And why the hell is Debbie being carried away by ICE CREAM MEN?!

Date: 2009-04-11 01:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Ah, Christian comics. Al Hartley being GONE WITH THE WIND to Jack Chick & Fred Carter's BIRTH OF A NATION. (or a different analogy, John Hughes vs. 70s Wes Craven)

Although nothing, nothing at all, can touch CRUSADERS for sheer psychotic creepiness, the fact these look the way they do in some ways makes them even scarier, as this is reflective of the self-image of the paranoid evangelical--who thinks that the sinners have time to waste bothering to tempt them in the first place. My experience is that hardcore Christians have much more of a problem interesting people in them.

And I do love the absolute lack of human compassion Betty shows here. She's lying there, bleeding to death, and Earth-Spire Betty sees a perfect moment for conversion. Meet your Ezekiel quota* yet, Betty?

*My own term. The book of Ezekiel is in many ways the basis of the missionary compulsion--God tells Ezekiel to go down into a "sinful" town and warn them of His impending wrath if they do not convert. If he does this and they do not convert, he still will be saved. But if he doesn't bother, he will suffer with them. Look closely at that and see the selfless motivations therein. The motivation is not to help others, primarily. It's to assure your own reservation in Heaven.

Date: 2009-04-11 05:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
You know, I'm nothing like Jerry or Debbie. I'm not into drugs, I don't drink, I never have and probably never will be described as a 'party animal'. In short, I have nothing whatsoever in common with this couple - and yet I still identify more with them here than I do with Archie and Betty. I loathe this version of Archie and Betty. I really, really do.
You know what particulary offends me? Page 3, panel 2 - "When God fills your life, you don't need anything else!"
I'd like to say, 'I have no words', but I do, as a matter of fact. I've got a lot of 'em.
"You don't need anything else"? Really? Not even other interests, a good job, a hobby, a favorite food, ambitions for the future? Friends, family, self-respect, pride in the abilities of yourself and others, a LIFE, in fact? Nope, none of those count - just God.
Don't you worry your pretty little head, Debbie - God will take care of everything. He'll take care of you after you die, as long as you're his devoted little minion here on Earth. He'll forgive the fact that you've 'done your own thing', that you have, perish forfend, actually shown some INDEPENDENCE and non-conformity. Just read the Bible every day, go to church on Sundays, try to convert every non-believer you meet and generally be a GOOD little sheep, and all will be hunky-dory.
I MEAN, GOOD GRIEF, PEOPLE! *visibly makes an effort to calm himself down* All right, all right, I'm fine. Mad as hell, but fine.
Let me qualify myself - I have no problem with religious faith. I've got a religious faith of my own, of sorts (it's not Christianity, or even an organized religion - more of a personal philosophy - but faith is faith). And while most of the people I know could best be described as 'skeptical to undecided', I even have a few friends who are religious, and make no bones about it. And I feel pretty sure that if I showed this comic to them, they would be offended, too.
Believe in a higher power if you want to, but don't let it run your life. If you spend your life devoted to God and nothing else, then what the hell kind of a life have you led? Make your own decisions, people. Don't be a sheep. Don't worry about 'what would Jesus do', try and figure out what YOU'D do. Thank God for your good fortune if you're of a mind to, but don't depend on him for every single thing. You will become a self-righteous priss at best, a fanatic at worse - like Betty and Archie here, the sanctimonious little Bible-thumpers.
Oh, man, I'm mad. I'm REALLY mad. I'm ending this rant right here before I start smashing the computer. I HATE comics like this!

Date: 2009-04-11 09:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
That was about as subtle as the Pythons catapulting a cow at me. Still, I used to be overwrought when I'd see stupid stuff like this, but as time goes on, I realize that if I let the bitterness win, then I'm no better than these people.

Besides, we all know Archie was shagging Betty and Veronica. And Jughead!

Date: 2009-04-13 11:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Those paramedics seem awful happy about carting away a severely injured and probably traumatized girl. Is this whole place on Valium?


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