proteus_lives: (Default)
[personal profile] proteus_lives posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Greetings True Believers!

Here 3 funny scans from Avengers Academy #3. Various superheroes are visiting the kiddies to teach them various stuff. One class has the female cadets learning from the mighty Shield-Maiden herself!

Her advice the point.

Plus, a Juggernaut funny!

Class is in session.

I want a Hercules and Valkyrie mini now.

The kiddies are also in a "super-scared straight" program where they visit The Raft and talk to the Thunderbolts.

Reptil has a question for Cain.

Hehe, is Reptil to polite to ask him to say, "I'm the Juggernaut bitch!"

Date: 2010-08-20 06:29 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex
I think it's meant more like she's an EXTREMIST feminist - which, to be fair, she is usually more or less portrayed as, to some degree. I mean, her first appearance - as the Enchantress playing a role, admittedly, not HER, but still - was as the head of the 'Lady Liberators', kicking the asses of all the male Avengers. It's inevitable that, in her subsequent career, she should be portrayed as somewhat... abrasive towards males, sometimes verging towards extremes. The whole 'men will inevitably disappoint you' thing sounds a good deal like the tirades that some of the more hardcore lunatic-fringe feminists launch into from time to time - like the whole 'all sex between men and woman is automatically rape because of gender inequality' thing, remember that one? Besides, I would point out that Tigra is calling HERSELF a feminist, not Val, so she - and presumably the writer - clearly doesn't view feminism itself as a bad thing, they're just poking fun at some of the more extreme practitioners of it, who Valkyrie at times seems to embody.

Date: 2010-08-20 09:47 am (UTC)
valtyr: (Default)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
Please don't parrot half-remembered feminist theory you don't understand to back up your characterization of extreme feminists as 'lunatic'. It's very offensive, especially in the context of the long history of women's views being dismissed because they're 'hysterical' and 'over-emotional' when they object to oppression.

Date: 2010-08-20 11:05 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex
I'm sorry if I offended you, but that's not at all what I meant. By referring to the 'lunatic fringe', I wasn't saying that extreme feminists were lunatics or 'hysterical or 'over-emotional' - the term, as I understand it, simply means the hard-core extremist elements of any party or group, feminists included. It wasn't meant as an insult to feminism, it's just a turn of phrase.
And I wasn't 'parroting half-remembered feminist theory that I don't understand' - first off, it wasn't a theory, it was a statement, and I remember it quite clearly. I will admit that I don't remember where I first encountered it, but I'm sure with a little research I could turn it up. If you wish, I can do so.

Date: 2010-08-20 11:38 am (UTC)
valtyr: (Default)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
And I wasn't 'parroting half-remembered feminist theory that I don't understand' - first off, it wasn't a theory, it was a statement, and I remember it quite clearly. I will admit that I don't remember where I first encountered it, but I'm sure with a little research I could turn it up. If you wish, I can do so.

Yes, you were. You see, I already know who 'said' it, when they 'said' it, and the social and legal context they 'said' it in, and I understand the point they were making. I also know what they actually said. You obviously don't 'remember it clearly', because you've mangled the quote abominably as well as taking it out of context.

The "all sex is rape" quote is actually debunked on Snopes, that's how often people going 'lol extreme feminists' repeat this nonsense. Please stop perpetuating this in your attempts to dismiss what you describe as 'extreme' feminists. In fact, you could just stop trying to dismiss feminists, that would be awesome.

Also, your saying that it can't be feminist theory because it's a statement is just nonsense. Theorizing, you don't know how it works.

Date: 2010-08-20 12:48 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex
Look, if I was wrong about the quote, then fine - you evidently know more about it than I do - but I was not trying to 'dismiss' feminists. I was simply saying that there ARE extremist feminists, just like there are extremist everything elses, and Valkyrie's portrayal here would seem to be a commentary played for humor on the sorts of things they say. That's all I was saying - that, and that the comic itself didn't seem to be anti-feminist, as Tigra was calling herself a feminist.

Date: 2010-08-20 12:56 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (Default)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
And speaking as someone who has already commented in this post on how I largely agree with Valkyrie's points, I find it irritating to have these views described as 'the lunatic fringe', all right?

You don't know anything about what you call 'extreme' feminism, as shown by your misquote; you're writing off something you don't know anything about. You don't have to agree with the more radical areas of feminism (I don't agree with some of them) but talking about them when you don't know anything about them just displays your ignorance and perpetuates bad information.

Date: 2010-08-20 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex
I would venture to correct you that I know a LITTLE bit about extreme feminism - I used to be close friends with someone who self-identified as a radical feminist back in college, and we had a number of long and interesting conversations on the subject, so I at least know THAT much. The issue is more that I didn't know as much as I thought I did. I thought I was referring to a valid quote, all right? I remember reading it in the 'New Yorker', or some similar magazine. If said quote has been debunked and is no longer - or was never - valid, then fine, you evidently know more about the subject than I do, but I wasn't just randomly throwing out something - people have chided me in the past for unsubstantiated research in my arguments, so I thought it best to give an example that I knew HAD been published at some point, and that I could look up and quote if need be. If I picked the wrong one, I'm sorry - that was the one that came to mind.
And I wasn't necessarily describing Valkyrie's views as 'the lunatic fringe' - although they seem a tad on the extreme side to me, but that's just me - I was saying that they seemed to be a REFERENCE to the lunatic fringe, by which I simply meant the more radical areas of feminism. You evidently object to the term, and I'm sorry if it offended you, but as I explained earlier, I wasn't saying that extreme feminists are crazy or anything - it's just a term. If I can use it to describe extremist conservatives or extremist liberals or extremist environmentalists or any of many other political and or/social groups or movements, many of which, I should add, I AGREE with, then I fail to see why I can't also apply it to extremist feminists.


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