espanolbot: (Default)
[personal profile] espanolbot posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Warning: Horrible, horrible skirts.

Currently, Supergirl is a character that I at least tolerate, but when she first began in her Jeph Loeb reboot of the character I absolutely LOATHED HER.

Reason One,
she spent more time beating up her superhero colleagues than actual supervillains.

Supergirl 3

Supergirl 21

Reason Two
When asked to actually perform superheroics she whined about it,
Supergirl 12

Reason Three
While fanservice is something that is something of an unfortunate side-effect of a mostly male orientated comics market, what they attempted to get away with with the 15/16 year old Kara was kind of creepy.

She spends a large portion of her introductary issue of Superman/Batman walking around naked, for example.

And this scene from Supergirl 6, where Kara and Powergirl are posing as the Kryptonian folkheroes, Flamebird and Nightwing, to fight a dictator posing as "Kal-El" who has occupied the city of Kandor,

That example couples with her being both aggressively violent to other superheroes, this case Power Girl, as well as her reluctance to do her job.

In the storyline 'Candor', Kara also attempts to murder a guy by throwing him hundreds of feet into the air to let him drop, leaves Power Girl to get tortured by Saturn Queen (an evil version of the Legion's Saturn Girl,) and in the end sells the city of Kandor to Ultraman and Saturn Queen in exchange for a machine that cures all ills and the possible location of Kara's parents.

This is how she deals with Karen, who naturally isn't happy with this,
Supergirl 9

The machine she sells to Bruce Wayne in exchange for a ton of cash that she buys an apartment with, and the fact she strongarmed Karen into abandoning Kandor to a fascist regime, remained a sore point between the two characters for some time.

It did seem something of an odd point that just as Cassandra Cain was being phased out and being rebuilt as a melodramatic supervillain for no reason, they had Kara around the place, being thoroughly unlikeable and going through her supercolleagues like a combine harvester through a wheatfield.

Needless to say, having such a selfish, boring character that was mentored by the Big Three, was stronger than Superman (until it was retconned) and was able to beat up any superhero she liked but STILL had them lining up to be her friends, what happened when she went up against Cass Cain when she had a case of the Evils.

Supergirl 14

Here EvulCass was hired by the Donna Troy villainess Dark Angel (who was in turn hired by one of the Monitors of the Multiverse) as a test of Kara's character.

Oddly, for EvilCass, her plan for taking down Kara is actually kind of clever. Where she first sends loads of assassins after Kara and her (creepy, stalkerish) boyfriend Power-Boy to test their weaknesses and to draw Kara directly to her.

She even kidnaps and tortures the guy who Kara is stringing along with the promise of a possible relationship, Captain Boomerang Jr, as bait, but Kara being Kara she doesn't even notice that he's missing.

Kara instead just breaks into the Batcave to look up Bruce's files on Cass. Because, why actually put effort into looking for your archfoe when you can use other people's stuff without their permission?

And WOW, that's not a flattering picture of Cass is it?

Kara goes after Cass, and since even drugged up evil Cass is a better character than Supergirl at this point, she gets her ass kicked.

And it's AWESOME.

First, Kara sees Cass' heat signature inside her lead-lined bunker and promptly smashes through the wall to beat her up, because, honestly, what could a girl who kicks and punches really good do against someone who can beat up most of the Justice League?

Note: the heat signature was coming from a dummy filled with diamond dust, which, even though it was a fake, still broke in half when she crashed into it. Leading to questions as to what would have happened to Cass if she'd been standing in that position...

Cass has the upper hand all the way through the fight, and it's honestly the best thing to come out of the whole "Cass is evil because of "bad blood", no wait it was because of drugs and her dad messing with her head as she went through withdrawal" incident.

Naturally, the only way Kara can win this is by cheating with a superpower that never appeared before this issue. Although to be fair, EvilCass probably shouldn't have been attempting to dryhump Kara whilst trying to chop her head off,

Anyways, shortly after this Kara's character took a whole new direction, and actually became a lot more likeable, more heroic and generally less annoying. So Cass' misery helped out Kara as well to an extent.

Except for the time she brought down Airforce One with Wonder Girl in Amazons Attack.

Date: 2010-08-24 01:12 am (UTC)
punishermax: (Default)
From: [personal profile] punishermax
Jesus, in those first few pages she looked near naked with that costume. The fact that the artist felt the need to have her skirt ruffle and fly up in every scene didn't help.

Also that two page spread with her and Power girl should just have a giant arrow pointing to the boob window saying "TITS!" to really complete the image.

Also, the fuck is she doing in that final scan? She...she can grow blades? From her body? The fuck?

Date: 2010-08-24 01:16 am (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
On the one hand you can kinda see why this take acts the way she does, and on the other hand you can understand why people'd get mad her like that.

I do love one set of lines she has with Superman, where she's all " You know I'm stronger than you? " and he's like " You know I hold back, right? "

Date: 2010-08-24 01:27 am (UTC)
leikomgwtfbbq: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leikomgwtfbbq
I was never a fan of Supergirl. I always loved Power Girl more.

Date: 2010-08-24 01:29 am (UTC)
book_of_daniel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] book_of_daniel
This character was just loathesome for so long. Every issue was Kara fighting some other hero or team. Kara vs the JSA. Kara vs the Titans. Kara vs Karen. Kara vs Batgirl. Kara vs Superman. It just went on and on and on. It wasnt just predictable. It was lazy. How anyone thought she was anything but a super villian still escapes me.

Sure the character is much better now but the stink of that first year is going to stick to her for a long, long time.

Date: 2010-08-24 01:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Well, the other half of the bad-writing coin is that every other superhero she met decided to violently attack her. I have no idea what Loeb thought he was doing, there.

Frankly, she struck me as a 15-year-old girl who didn't want to be a superhero. A nice plot would have been letting her not be one. The commerce angle of a Supergirl comic doesn't really allow that, but if she'd stayed a secondary character and been allowed to have a character arc showing her adapting to this alien planet and choosing to becoming a superhero for some reason better than "Well, I'm a kryptonian, too", that might have been entertaining.

Date: 2010-08-24 01:37 am (UTC)
seriousfic: (Default)
From: [personal profile] seriousfic
I think the best (read: worst) part of all this was when Supergirl faced off against some damn version of the Silver Age Supergirl, who was actually responsible and nice. Of course, we were supposed to emphasize with the flawed, struggling NuKara... but it was hard not to notice that DC was responding to criticisms of Kara's horribleness by saying "oh, you want her to be perfect, is that it!? Fine, what if we have a villain use all your arguments, then get beat up? Bet you feel pretty silly now!"

This didn't do anything about the character being horrible.

Date: 2010-08-24 02:38 am (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
I never figured out how those spikes missing killing Cass. Comic-book science? Also there is no way in hell, a Tim Drake written-in-character lets Supergirl (a Krpytonian) go after his "family" (and he does consider Cass as such) without telling Bruce about it . Tim is a guy who let Jason Todd out of jail even though he murdered people after all.

I also never figured out what DC was going for here? Were they expecting to sell this title entirely on fanservice? Just gratuitous T & A art of a teenage girl (they were trying to do the same with Mary Marvel in Countdown in the same period)? They wasted a good plot with Powergirl and Supergirl teaming up one year later (notice it's never been brung up again?) and who knows where the heck they were going with that whole Boomerang Jr. thing (at one point she even refers to herself as jailbait).

Editorial makes a big deal of bringing back Superman's cousin, Kara Zor-El, back into continuity, a character beloved for generations for being one of the nicest, sweetest characters EVER and uses that memory of the character to get readers into a "Supergirl" title only to make the character for a super-entitled, violent, obnoxious twit who was basically unlikable. Why? And it's obviously not just the readers who recognized it since Sterling Gates (who basically re-invented the character without rebooting her) gets kudos from the people at DC themselves, like Johns and Didio. So why did they stick so long with the Lindsay Lohan version of Supergirl.

Date: 2010-08-24 02:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'll never understand how beating up other heroes is supposed to make Supergirl more likeable.

I smell Loeb's hand in this, though. He loves to have his character prove their superior to any popular character at any given moment.

Date: 2010-08-24 04:48 am (UTC)
schala_kid: Slowpoke Flash (flash)
From: [personal profile] schala_kid
Thank god they retconned her whole shitty personality being a product of Kryptonite poisoning. Also I just noticed Loeb Supergirl has the same personality as the Red Hulk!

The whole crystal things growing out of her body was a really dumb power, BTW it shows up again in WONK(or a comic during that time anyway) on some Kryptonians and it's explained as being some sort of Kryptonian sickness or something.

Kara instead just breaks into the Batcave to look up Bruce's files on Cass. Because, why actually put effort into looking for your archfoe when you can use other people's stuff without their permission?

She does this before in the Holiday Special except Alfred is there with her and he doesn't seem to mind. Joe Kelly at the time was trying to build up a relationship between her and Bruce sort of akin to a father and a daughter and while it was cute I have a hard time Bruce letting her mess with his stuff (Still it was better to how Loeb had them).

IMO I much preferred Kelley Puckett and Sterling Gates interpretation. Puckett made it kind of like a Yoda and Luke Skywalker thing with Bruce giving her these weird tests and Kara being annoyed and confused by him, while Gates had Kara kicking ass without her powers and being a detective (hinting at her being trained by Batman).

But yeah Supergirl is x10000000000 times better now, she even has shorts.

Date: 2010-08-24 04:50 am (UTC)
imafoxgrr: (WW - Wondy says halt)
From: [personal profile] imafoxgrr
Oh jeez, I've read some of her recent issues and can't believe this is the same character. What were they thinking?

Date: 2010-08-24 09:59 am (UTC)
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifthie
I agree up to the point where for some reason we're saying Kara at some point stopped being awful.

Date: 2010-08-24 03:05 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Hope Silly)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
well i like Supergirl now. i tolerated her then, but really the whole "i am an angry wangsty teenager" started getting annoying fast, there were some good moments. but all in all i was like, "Oh god, stop being so angry!"

now though she is a MUCH better character now that a good writer has gotten a better writer that actually seems t know where he wants to go with her.

Date: 2010-08-24 03:06 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
Except for the time she brought down Airforce One with Wonder Girl in Amazons Attack.

yeah... we all try to forget that... except "Bees" and they gave us Back Polly. thats all though really....

Date: 2010-08-24 04:07 pm (UTC)
leorising: (jorelspank)
From: [personal profile] leorising
Glurge. So glad I missed all of this, I'd've been pissed if I'd actually spent money to read it.

Also: so tired of Peej = "Boooooooooobies! Huh-huh-huh." :P

Date: 2010-08-30 01:30 am (UTC)
turtlefu: (Default)
From: [personal profile] turtlefu
I actually like the "idea" of the Supergirl character, but execution has always sucked.
I hear Gates is doing great things for her, should I start with his run?

Date: 2010-09-26 01:29 am (UTC)
alienist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alienist
Oh, Kara, you poor thing. Why did they give you to Loeb.

I did quite like the movie version.

Date: 2010-10-23 12:26 am (UTC)
angel_gidget: (Comic: Supergirl)
From: [personal profile] angel_gidget
I think I'm the only person who loved Jeph Loeb's run. There were always awesome guest stars; Churchil's art appealed to me, and yes, Kara was kinda dumb and way lost, but at least she was always entertaining. She would say snarky things, and would explore the different ways a superhero could establish an identity, and it wouldn't work, of course. 'Cause she was too impetuous, didn't get earth mentality, couldn't follow orders, whatever... it was fun to see her trying. At least I was never bored. That's more than I can say now.

What A Mess

Date: 2010-10-23 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yes, it was very difficult to find a reason to like the character in those first 30 issues or so.

The way they set up the character history for Supergirl just left me shaking my head. After the events of her introduction Superman and Batman let this 15 year old super-powered orphan live on her own in a completely foreign culture? Seriously? Let's see, the writers establish that her family and everyone she's ever known is dead (at least as far as she knows), everything she had or knew is gone, every spoken language is a second language for her, and the one thing she was supposed to do (get to Earth to take care of and protect baby Kal) she's just failed at. What little memory she has is spotty and contradictory. She been in a drugged sleep for 30 years inside of a ship stuck in a conglomeration of dangerous radioactive debris. And that's at least 3 times as long as she was supposed to be in the drug-induced coma (I guess I can find an excuse for the emaciated look of the original artwork, she was half starved!) Before they put her in her own book they write her being kidnapped twice (once "for her own good"), have the one friend she's made killed trying to protect her, she's tortured, brainwashed, un-brainwashed, and manipulated by everyone both friend and foe. All in the space of a couple of months at most. So then these heroes decide that the best thing to do is to let this 15 year old basket case live on her own.

Is there some sort of interplanetary child protective services we can call? In the real world we'd be talking about child abandonment, she became a super-powered version of a street orphan, with the blessings of her cousin. The writers let Wonder Woman have the right idea, she should have been kept on Themyscira for a few years until she could adapt or they could figure out how to better use her as a character. I guess the one thing that makes sense about Supergirl's characterization is how messed up she is.

Given the setup they gave to the character there would have been some really interesting stories they could have told. Instead the first 34 issues of that series were just a huge writing fail that they've been trying to retcon their way out of ever since. And then they brought her family and friends back, then killed them again just 'cause she's not already screwed up enough. About this point they should be checking her into the high-security wing of Arkham Asylum.

What a mess. It was like really bad fan-fic, but with even less internal consistency or respect for the characters. I'm glad they're trying to get it back on track.


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