30 days of scans mem: Day 9: Least favourite male character

[arilou_skiff]

The character I like the least in all the Marvel Universe.




I loathe Captain America. I loathe, loathe LOATHE the character. He's sanctimonous, stuck up, and generally vacous, his writers always seem more concerned about saying something "About America" (I don't CARE about America, 'tis a silly place) than giving him any actual character. And they constantly do these maudlin weird pieces with Steve crying over Vietnam veterans or something.

But really, it wouldn't bother me that much if he stayed in his own book: He IS Captain America after all, what else is to be expected with that name? But no. He keeps showing up elsewhere, and always surrounded by this stench of self-righteousness. And even worse is the way he warps the narrative around himself: In his sueish-glory he makes EVERYONE love him. Indeed, if you don't love him it's pretty much proof that you are a Bad Person and Deserve No Sympathy. And everyone admires him SOO much despite well, I don't see it. Yeah, he's a great hero who has fought a wide variety of threats, but what *exactly* makes him a better hero than Spider-Man or Nova or Scott Summers or any other? There's nothing inherent in the narrative that should make them put him on such a pedestal, and yet everyone does. Because he's the bloody Captain America.

And then there's the fact that he's on the Avengers: The Earth's Mightiest Heroes... Only, he's not that mighty is he? Yeah, he's a good fighter, and stronger than an ordinary man, but he's still not really in the league of most of the threats he faces. That wouldn't be an issue if he wasn't TREATED as such. As if his little shield and his little fists could actually HURT the cosmic (or even just superhuman) threats they face.

Even Batman isn't as bad: Bats, at least, has tech gadgets and such, he can bring something to the fight by being the "tech guy" and coming up with the plans. But Cap isn't even that. (Tony/Hank is the Tech Guy, not Steve) so all he really brings to the team is... Speechifying?

There could be an interesting story there, Ultimate Captain America was horribly written, but at least he was a nod in the right direction, of a man from a different time ending up fish-out-of-water style in a new world entirely. Original!Cap has (rightfully) long since grown out of that phase, which makes him about as interesting as watching paint dry. Red white and blue paint. With stars.

It wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't reated as Infallible and Superior. During the Civil War there were actually people, both creators and fans, who pretty much decided it on the basis of "Well, cap is on one side, and cap is never wrong." When you have that kind of character YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

Bucky!Cap isn't my kind of character (I'm not really into thriller stuff) but at least he has some kind of personality that isn't determined by being St. Steve of America.

Comments

[arilou_skiff]

See, here's the thing.

I'm not american.

[proteus_lives]

So?

The ideals Cap fights for are universal.

He's an avenger and hero. He doesn't fight just for America.

He fights for the whole world. (And on occasion, the universe)

[arilou_skiff]

My point is that by saying "american ideals" you mean nothing. Define them. Talk about them, show their effects and consequences, then we might talk.

Most Cap stories just takes it for granted and leaves it at that.

[filkertom]

I kinda thought I had, what with mentioning the Bill of Rights and Preamble and all that. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness -- you really need those defined?

[arilou_skiff]

Yes, that's kind of what we call "politics".

[schmevil]

Noooo. The Bill of Rights and the Preamble are more than just political tracts, they're important pieces of political philosophy. There's a particular philosophical position underlying them, and it's important to understanding Cap.

*Says a Canadian.

[arilou_skiff]

No, it's not. It's a political tract designed to appeal to certain political groups in the context of a tense situation after a successful revolution.

Yes, it draws upon works of political philosophy, but it was also created within te context of an actual political situation. It is a product of it's time.

[proteus_lives]

The American Ideals Steve fights for are universal.

Life, liberty and rest.

If you want to see their effects, I can suggest a list of history books for you.

"Most Cap stories just takes it for granted and leaves it at that."

Most people understand these basic concepts.

[arilou_skiff]

No, they don't. Most people disagree about them furiously That is what is known as "politics":

[proteus_lives]

Once again, you don't understand the character.

He doesn't stump for politics/politicans or parties.

He puts himself above the fray because he stands for something universal.

[arilou_skiff]

Yes he does. "America" i not a poliically neutral term. Even the "ideals" of america are not universal. They are highly specific, and even americans canot seem to agree on what they in practce *mean*.

[filkertom]

The human ideal, then. He's an American, that colors his perspective. But the idea is one of the oldest and most powerful: Cap Saves People.

Sometimes from bad guys or aliens or war; sometimes from themselves; sometimes from our own government. But he saves people, so that they have a chance to have the lives they dream of.

That's what heroes do. And Cap does it for no other reason than it's The Right Thing To Do.

[arilou_skiff]

The problem is that rather than letting his actions speak to us, the narrator does. We don't get to judge for ourselves how awesome Cap is. The narrator (or a side-character) does.

[filkertom]

Well, what do you want him to do? Announce with every blow that he's striking that blow for justice? That turns him into the speech-making buffoon you think he is.

For whatever reason, you seem to be stuck on this, and I suspect I won't be able to dislodge you. So good luck, and I hope someday you do get Cap. If not, oh well.

[arilou_skiff]

Just let his actions speak. Don't have him use gratuitious (and meaningless symbolism) hey, I'm not expecting MUCH subtlety, it's comics, but at least Spider-man level dito would be nice.

[filkertom]

Okay, I'm back for one thing.

It may be gratuitous and meaningless symbolism to you. That's fine. (Although the "hey, I'm not an American" riff is, honestly, a bit shallow -- did you never hear of the reputation of America over, say, the past century?)

But to a skinny white kid growing up in Detroit during the era of the riots, just a few years past the whole Civil Rights movement, smack in the middle of Vietnam, it meant a lot.

It meant a lot for a character who literally wrapped himself in the flag to be willing to fight and die for people not like himself. And remember, Steve's technically as white-bread-looking as they come -- blue-eyes, blond, physically superior, ring any bells?

But Steve fought for everybody. Because that was what we did as Americans. And remember that, for the longest time, the primary audience for comics was -- hell, still is -- under the age of 25. Back in my day, under the age of 18.

Using the captions for narrative was, and is, a valid storytelling technique. We can't all be Alan Moore.

Don't blame the character if the writers wanted to make sure their audience got the point.

And now, really, I have to go.