aelflar: (Default)
[personal profile] aelflar posting in [community profile] scans_daily I skimmed through most of the Titans parts to my object of interest - Roy. Some long-time Titans fans are a little upset at Lian Harper’s death and Roy’s subsequent drug relapse. What can you say to them to convince them to stick around for the rest of the story?

J.T.: I look at this as the beginning of a very long and hard road for Roy. Having him handle Lian’s loss in the pages of a few issues would have been a huge letdown. I wanted to give the loss the weight and meaning that it deserved. It had to matter to him, had to change him forever. He’s wrought with anger, lashing out in every way he can, and doing his best to completely avoid feeling anything. He wants to be numb, he wants to forget. Hell, part of him wants to be dead. To me, that’s a character and a conflict I want to read about.

I sincerely doubt that, but my tastes in comics might not be those imagined by DC. I am more intrigued as to why DC keeps trying to market this ill-inspired story, instead of just changing something, to make it better..somehow. Surely the sales aren`t that great and the fact they acknowledge the fan complaints means they are fully aware the story isn`t loved. So really, why do they bother so much for something of low value?

And a picture of the fabulous DiscoWing for legality :)

Date: 2010-10-06 10:06 pm (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
I really wish DC would stop defending this story - it's been universally panned. Heck, other DC writers/artists are already mocking it (did any check out Bizarro Arsenal's quiver of dead cats in the newest Supergirl)? I've seen DC writers before like FabNic, Gail, Kurt Busiek, even Geoff Johns who will (while they won't actually trash their company's stuff) won't hype it and will even admit there are some problems with it. Even James Robinson, who I like because he's always honest at cons, was outright apologizing for Cry for Justice (it wasn't my best stuff, I was just getting back into comics, etc.) while it was still going on.

I'm not a huge Roy fan. I can take or leave the character (mostly leave). But has someone who has seen some of their favorites (pre-Rebirth Hal Jordan, Cass Cain, Mary Marvel) wrecked by DC, I can sympathize with fans of the character. Outside of the height of the Hal debacle, this is the worst I've seen DC treat any of it's own so-called "heroes".

Date: 2010-10-06 10:13 pm (UTC)
maijson: (Default)
From: [personal profile] maijson
I think DC is in a position where no matter what choice they make, they're still going to be ridiculed whether they completely retcon it or continue down the path they're going. I figure once Titans is canceled (And we all know that's coming soon) they'll just abandon it all some new Geoff Johns comes down the line 5 years later and completely redoes the entire Green Arrow franchise...again.

Date: 2010-10-06 11:12 pm (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Speedy/Roy Harper)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
Geoff Johns comes down the line 5 years later and completely redoes the entire Green Arrow franchise...again.

I will most definitely welcome that if it fixes this crap..then again i don't want to wait 5 years for it..

Date: 2010-10-07 11:24 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
This is really the kind of thing that should be caught by editorial, and fixed ASAP.

Date: 2010-10-08 08:52 am (UTC)
levyrasputin: (roy-scars)
From: [personal profile] levyrasputin
ahahh can you post a scan of Bizzaro arsenal with the quiver of dead cats please!!?

I've been thinking a lot about the parallelisms between Hal's and Roy's falls and I've come to the conclusion the second one is a lot worse.

Roy's life got destroyed basically by chance by a villain that did not even meant to target him or his family for a reason, and what follows was him going mad at each one of his dear people, get back to drugs and just surrender to a urge of setting stuff on fire, with gross details like dead cats, zombie Lian and limp dick along the way. And then he joins Cheshire and Slade. Uhm.

As much as one can hate Emerald Twilight, it didn't destroy Hal's dignity to such a degree. He went out of his mind after his whole city was blown up by one of his enemies and the Guardians of the Universe show him no compassion at all. His reactions have a lot more dignity and were a lot more appropriate than those Roy is showing since RoA #2, and written in a less tasteless and gross way.

Which is why I find the myth of the Horrendous'90s not that scary compared to today's abominations.

Date: 2010-10-06 10:18 pm (UTC)
sweettart1823: (Arrow Family)
From: [personal profile] sweettart1823
I'm... meh about this. I mean I get Krul the point he makes about Roy not getting over Lian's death in a few issues, and the fact that he wanted to make it have weight it's good. But... he wasn't really able to pull that off in a good way. I'm not sure that's what he is best at the emotional stuff so it just comes off... wrong.

And I LIKE Krul honestly, and I still don't know how much was his idea and how much was mandated, I'm pretty sure the whole him turning into a villain was because Didio had been hinting at a new villain was going to rise for a while. But I just don't know. It doesn't really matter I guess.

Date: 2010-10-08 08:57 am (UTC)
levyrasputin: by me, poor darling they didn't know what they were going into (kleydonna-nicetomeetyou)
From: [personal profile] levyrasputin
hell yes, Krull sounds so great from the interviews and the he writes such crappy stories..... D:

sure, he HAD to pick up Roy from CFJ and bring him to Villains for Hire, so the path was already established for him .. but the writing of RoA itself makes me cringe in a lot of points.
I still have not forgive him for the 'space whore', the hilariously horrible masterpiece that was #3 and Zombie!Lian. UGHH.

Date: 2010-10-06 10:43 pm (UTC)
leikomgwtfbbq: (...)
From: [personal profile] leikomgwtfbbq
I would prefer that he not have to deal with this conflict at all. >:( Want Lian back NOW, please~

Date: 2010-10-06 11:15 pm (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Speedy/Roy Harper)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
Dear DC,

Cut the bullshit. Roy is my favorite character. In my rping, when it comes to him, I don't even acknowledge the crapfest created out of CfJ. Fix it. Stop defending it. It wasn't a good idea when you came up with it, it wasn't a good idea when you executed it, and it's not a good idea NOW! I could go into one of my usual long rants but am so damn tired of this shit.

Date: 2010-10-07 10:46 am (UTC)
endis_ni: (lian)
From: [personal profile] endis_ni
It's like you're in my brain!

Date: 2010-10-07 12:16 am (UTC)
goggle_kid: (Default)
From: [personal profile] goggle_kid

DC's current creative policy.

Date: 2010-10-07 02:48 am (UTC)
mad: Jason Todd says a lot of things (Jason Todd)
From: [personal profile] mad
Well, it sounds like Krul wants to do the best with what he's got, but what he was given in the first place is still not something I want to read or spend money on.


Happy disco Dick! =)

Date: 2010-10-07 05:44 am (UTC)
star_of_airdrie: (arsenal)
From: [personal profile] star_of_airdrie
This is deplorable... They HATE us!

I just can't stand it any more and continue my manta 'DC, why can't I quit you?'

Date: 2010-10-07 07:10 am (UTC)
ext_3522: (Default)
From: [identity profile]
To me, that’s a character and a conflict I want to read about.

Really? The character and conflict I wanted to read about was a superhero dealing with being a single father, being a conflict you find almost nowhere else in comics (unlike a superhero being near-suicidal over the death of a loved one, which seems like it's been played out too many times now).

Date: 2010-10-07 08:47 pm (UTC)
geoffsebesta: (Default)
From: [personal profile] geoffsebesta
I'd go with either if they were written well, but the second would be a lot more unusual at the majors. What does a hero do when wife/child/girlfriend isn't brutally murdered?

Date: 2010-10-09 01:19 am (UTC)
shadwing: Psi SW2 Game Card (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadwing
The latter would be okay if it was WRITTEN WELL, this tripe is not Roy is only mildly OOC, off the deep end and on drugs is believeable with Lian gone.

The REST of the Titans and Arrow Family's reaction on the other hand is so INSANELY OOC...

Date: 2010-10-07 08:50 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ebailey140
How are the Green Arrow and Titans books selling? I would imagine not close to what the Batman and Green Lantern families are (the DC franchises that have been most noticiably getting away from the Iron Age Grimdark and embracing the Silver and Bronze Age parts of their histories).

Now, granted, the Batman family is going to sell, regardless, so it's not a fair comparison. But, comparing the Greens should tell us something.

Date: 2010-10-07 04:08 pm (UTC)
sweettart1823: (Mia)
From: [personal profile] sweettart1823
Actually Green Arrow is doing pretty well compared to the last, and I guarantee you Teen Titans is going to be doing a hell of a lot better. Krul isn't a bad writer, he's a pretty good writer so far and he's a lot better then what has actually been giving to these books in the past. He's like a mountain up from Henderson.

Date: 2010-10-07 05:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ebailey140
But, my question is how is the 90s Grimdark direction of the Arrow books (and by extension, with the Roy story being carried over there, Titans) selling compared to the Silver and Bronze Age influenced with modern sensibilities approach to the Green Lantern books.

I'm wondering because while I, personally, loathe the recent direction of the Arrow related books, and, judging from most of the comments here, so do a lot of others, I'm curious if this is reflected in comics fandom. Is this direction really "universally panned" as a comment above said, or is it actually popular? Is the current direction a good business move, regardless of what I think of it?

Or, are more heroic heroes, the Silver and Bronze Age approach with modern sensibilities, doing better? I know some here think Infinite Crisis was DC giving the middle finger to the fans who didn't like Identity Crisis, but I saw it as more a rejection of the 90s. Since the new era began (What do we call the post-Iron Age, anyway? We're out of classical Ages to call different eras in comics), we've seen retcons explaining away Bruce's and Hal's characterizations through the 90s and into the early 2000s, and the styles of the Bat and Lantern books shift, accordingly. Since comparing the sales of Arrow related books to Batman Family ones isn't really fair, I thought the Lantern books would be a better comparison to see which approach is more popular.


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