proteus_lives: (Default)
proteus_lives ([personal profile] proteus_lives) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2011-05-12 04:27 pm

Journey Into Mystery: Loki's gotta do what Loki's gotta do.

Greetings True Believers!

Loki is learning about what his role is to be in the Fear to come...

He needs allies, wisdom but most of all, he needs to talk to his brother.

Plus Volstagg being awesome, cuz that's what he does/is.


Odin is turning Asgard into a war machine. They're even imprisoning their enemies for use as attack dogs.

Loki isn't happy, especially with Thor's imprisonment. Volstagg takes him aside to teach him wisdom.

With goat-poop.

And of course, he's awesome.

Loki turns to the wicked bird "Ikol" for wisdom. The bird tells him to visit the World Tree and the three Nornish women who sit at it's base, whispering secrets.

Loki makes a rope of Toothgnasher and Toothgrinder's wool and dons his Asgardnaut armor and dives in.

He discovers...something.

Ikol asks him if he knows his path. Loki says he does but he needs more then counsel of a wicked bird to know if he should take this path.

Hmm, I like where this going, Loki's Dirty Dozen? Nice.

Loki frees a Hel-Wolf and binds it to him with Thor's Bregd-Thrall.

Now he must gather more allies and meet another relative.

Next issue:

Nice. I love the new dynamic with Thor and Loki. They need each other, well done Marvel!
janegray: (Default)

[personal profile] janegray 2011-05-12 10:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Motto. I always like Loki as a villain, but loki as Chaotic Neutral is so great it blew my mind. I really wish this could be one of the very few exceptions to the "Status Quo Is God" trope (like Dick Grayson going from Robin to Nightwing, and Magneto going from 100% evil villain to extremely sympathetic anti-villain/anti-hero).
venatosapiens: griffin vulture (Default)

[personal profile] venatosapiens 2011-05-12 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
As do I.It's a great change for the character. But nonetheless, the central tragedy of brother vs. brother is one that is going to be far to tempting to resist. Next time a big name writer comes on board, he's going to want to write a scheming, clever, evil Loki. Which I get-he's probably be a lot of fun to write, after all-but I don't much like it.

Enjoy it while it lasts, eh?

Speaking of, I just re-read Ultimate Thor today, and realized I have absolutely no clue what Loki's reason to turn was. No clue whatsoever. Can anyone explain it to me?
schala_kid: Stephanie Brown as Batgirl (Default)

[personal profile] schala_kid 2011-05-12 10:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Exactly, and if you must turn him back also at least let whatever he experienced as a kid leave a lasting impression on him (especially Thor being good to him).

But chaotic neutral really suits him, he's a trickster after all.
janegray: (Default)

[personal profile] janegray 2011-05-13 12:53 pm (UTC)(link)
If he switched between Chaotic Evil, Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Good, that would be one thing.

But until his rebirth as kid Loki, as far as I know in the canon comics he has always and ever been portrayed as Chaotic Evil.

Even when his actions ended up having a positive outcome (for example, the forming of the Avengers), that was never his intention. He always meant to do evil. Even when he fought by Thor's side to protect Asgard, he did so because he regarded Asgard as his, and couldn't stand the thought of somebody breaking his toys. His nature was always Chaotic Evil, regardless of the outcome, ever since his first appearance in comics.

So, if he does go back to beging a villain, that would be "staying where he is". His stunt as good-ish Loki wouldn't be "turning of the wheel", it would merely be like a tiny window against the Great Wall of China. It would simply play the "status quo is God" trope.
da_reap: (Default)

[personal profile] da_reap 2011-05-14 12:46 am (UTC)(link)
I dearly wish.

Hell, what I would've liked to see as far back as the Stracyznski reboot was Loki just being burned out on evil. He's betrayed, and been hated for betraying; he's ruled, and he hated ruling. He's been needing to earn a second chance all this time, to show himself as a valued part of Asgard that people could trust again. Imagine a TRUSTWORTHY Loki as the Asgardian equivalent of a Minister of Foreign Affairs! A Loki who fights by his brother's side and is partially responsible for saving the day during a mega-crossover or two!

And then, he finds himself growing bored. He can feel himself getting pettier and more spiteful, just out of ennui. Throw in a humiliating event where everyone laughs at him, and watch him start to fall again...KNOWING exactly what's happening and why, knowing the outcome as well. I think if you gave it a couple of years to happen, that would be a HELLACIOUSLY awesome way to rebuild him as a villain.
janegray: (Default)

[personal profile] janegray 2011-05-14 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)
This stunt as good-ish like his childhood with Thor before he went completely chaotic

But it has been recently retconned that Loki was bad all along, even as a child. It happened in the story where he travels back in time to orchestrate his own adoption.

Granted, his biological father was a violent child-beating asshole, and deserved everything he got and worse. But still, a small child coldly plotted the murder of his own father. And Loki didn't stop at that, the very next page that showed him just arrived in Asgard and getting dressed in Asgardian clothes had him immediately start plotting against the Asgardians with an hateful look in his eyes.

Supposedly, all the flashbacks showing young Thor and Loki getting along were due to the Unreliable Narrator trope: they were told from Thor's pov, and Thor never suspected that his brother secretly hated his guts.

...I have to say, personally, I HATE that retcon. I really loathe the idea that Loki was bad all along. It completely destroys the great tragedy (yes, this I consider a great tragedy) of an innocent child slowly growing to hate his own brother out of jealously and a feeling of inferiority. If Loki always hated Thor from the moment they met and was just very good at hiding it, there is no drama, no character development, no sense of loss, nothing.

Still, my personal feelings aside, the story is canon now. So kid Loki's goodness isn't a return to his original state, it's something brand-new.
ian_karkull: (Default)

[personal profile] ian_karkull 2011-05-13 12:27 am (UTC)(link)
My interpretation has always been that Loki is bound by fate (a major theme in Norse Mythology) to be The Villain Of The Story, even if the outcome of his actions contributes to the greater good (as with him forming The Avengers). Loki is fully aware of that and yet he will do what must be done.
That is Loki's great tragedy: Be he man or god, no one can escape his nature. Even the one who fought every second of his existence to forge his own destiny must in the end succumb to forces outside of his control.
janegray: (Default)

[personal profile] janegray 2011-05-13 12:39 pm (UTC)(link)
That's not just your interpretation, that's canon. That's exactly how things were explicitly stated to be up until Ragnarock.

However, things are supposed to be different now. And frankly, that's the way I want them to be. To me, being bound by fate is not a great tragedy (which is sad but beautiful), it's downright depressing (sad and ugly). I can't stand "you can't fight fate" stories.
bewareofgeek: (Default)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2011-05-13 03:34 pm (UTC)(link)
No, that's Christian fanfic of how things are supposed to be. The great majority of the stories involving Loki have him being a troublemaker, but not pure evil in a can.
janegray: (Default)

[personal profile] janegray 2011-05-13 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm talking about Marvel Loki here, not mythological Loki.

Can we stop with the assumption that what is true for the original mythological version of a character must be true for all of their version? Marvel Loki is not mythological Loki anymore than Disney Hercules is mythological Hercules.
ceirwyn: Why are you bothering me? Go away little person. (Default)

[personal profile] ceirwyn 2011-05-13 02:07 am (UTC)(link)
Well, writing a clever antagonist Loki is pretty easy with a chaotic neutral character. They're basically lying, cheating, bastards with strong self-interest...but they're loyal and will act in the interest of those that they've allowed to matter to them. Really, at his best, Loki is chaotic neutral. Also it keeps the Asgardians from looking like chumps for keeping him around, which was the major problem with "god of evil" Loki.

My take on this: So Loki will do some bad stuff for the greater good, and everyone will call him evil. The difference is that Loki is going to be doing stuff from a different motivation than before. Every previous time Loki's been highly immature and self-centered, and now, Loki is outwardly focused now. It's not about him only so much. I also think Thor or Odin are going to get clued in to why Loki has to be an agent of chaos, at least if young Loki is around for long.