turtlefu: (Default)
[personal profile] turtlefu posting in [community profile] scans_daily

This is it! The final part of this massive clusterfuck! But first, legality!

Maybe they'll get around to the black guy... eventually


DC’s New 52 Panel (Saturday Morning)

Winick says that with Batwing, he’s trying to mix superheroes with real-world issues in the Democratic Republic of Congo. He called Africa “a very politicized and ravaged country”.

“Now THERE’s that white privilege I was talking about! Good job we have mighty whitey to tell us how horrible of a “COUNTRY” Africa is! I get a huge feeling Winick is going to use this book as his mouthpiece for his opinions on the politics and culture of Africa, which he will grossly misunderstand and possibly turn into a "look at those SAVAGES" situation.”

DiDio made a list of heroines in starring roles. He says DC has the best percentage of females in starring roles.

“DC, DIVERSITY IS NOT ABOUT NUMBERS. Why don’t you guys GET THAT!? Also, I call bullshit on that anyway. Besides, Marvel is employing far more female creators (Deconnick, Immomen, Rios, Liu, etc.)”

Morrison says that Cass still exists in the DCU.

“Yay Cass!”          

The same Batgirl fan from the panel who asked about heroines on covers asked this panel why there weren’t more female creators in DC. DiDio says, GET THIS, they hire the best writers and artists they can! And the audience applauds! Morrison mocks her by saying he looks great in a dress, then turns around and encourages the female fans to submit work to DC.

“So, DiDio implies that the female talent out they isn’t good enough for DC, and then Morrison mocks a justifiably upset fan. Then he turns around and saves face by encouraging the female fans to submit their work. Presumably to be told that they aren’t good enough for the wealth of talent that DC only employs, like the kind that puts out Cry for Justice or the Rise of Arsenal.”

DC’s The Dark and The Edge Panel (Saturday Afternoon)

Lemire says Animal Man’s main character is actually Maxine, Buddy’s daughter. She gets her own powers.

“Which is interesting, but I can’t help but feel it takes away from the “everyman” qualities Buddy was supposed to have”

Cornell SPECIFICALLY calls Horsewoman a “diversity character, to state it crudely”, and compares her to the Man with No Name [Clint Eastwood’s Western Character]

“Good Job Cornell, you just took away the good feelings I had for you. Turns out his wheelchair user was just there for diversity cred!”

Cornell says Apollo and Midnighter are still gay, but they meet for the first time in the first issue, and their romance is slow. He also says that if he changes anything he won’t expect to come out of the “Gays in Comics” Panel alive.

“Okay, I do like the idea that they don’t immediately jump down each other’s pants, like they did originally. But apparently Cornell feels like the only thing wrong with changing their sexualities would be the negative fan reaction? Uh, you shouldn’t change their sexualities because that would homophobic, not because you fear how the fans would react.”

This one is the worst. DC replies to the negative fan reaction towards Harley’s new costume by saying “Provocative is good”, but says that Harley still has the same personality.

“REALLY DC, why is PROVOCATIVE only good for your FEMALE heroes, so you can dress them is as objectifying clothes as possible, but your male heroes wearing briefs on the outside is SO BAD it needed to be changed IMMEDIATELY.”

“Oh and just to add, included were some pages from an unknown book showing a gratuitous scene with strippers. I think it was either from Blackhawks, Suicide Squad, or Sgt. Rock.”

Date: 2011-07-27 10:15 pm (UTC)
marco: (ethereal)
From: [personal profile] marco
Oh, I know he does. The only place I really wonder what/how he means is with Catwoman, and I know he isn't going into the book as willfully ignorant (and insensitive) as some would be, I know Winick isn't perfect. Even though I enjoy plenty of his stuff and think his writing is good, I know not everyone gets every issue perfect (for instance, I can talk about issues that have the racial/ethnic and feminist intersection, but once it gets down to just the feminist side, sometimes things get complicated for me).

Like I mentioned here and elsewhere, I just don't want to see him be one of those writers that tries to use Africa to make a message or feel like since his story takes place in Africa that it has to have a message.

I think another thing that I got stuck on was that he only said it was politicized and ravaged. There was no further, "but it's also this-" or "but here's that too-". There was nothing good there. Just "politicized and ravaged". Even though I have faith in him, I feel (maybe reasonably) worried.

Date: 2011-07-27 10:36 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
no no you are right, you have a reason to feel worried.

part of it is that they can only tell you so much (Didio is keepin such a tight hold on everything he won't let any of them say much, okay to be far PART of it might be the writers trying to sell thier story too, but you can tell in the interviews what is THEM and what is Editorial.)

so they use Buzz words and stuff that will catch people's attention.

Winnick might not be the most elegant writer. I think the thing is when he
"tires" to write a message, it gets clunky.... but when he doesn't "try" he ends up tell a good story WITH a message and it is seamless.

Date: 2011-07-27 10:44 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: (Happy Willow)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
hey i'd like to try and sooth you a little (in a good way not a weird way.... hmmm it probably got weird with me say that.... ignore that... damit why am I still typing!) So here is part of an interview, and a link to an interview on cbr (thanks to Whitesycamore below) hope this helps a little

Africa is both tumultuous in terms of its history and its politics, and it allows us to go in so many places we really can't go when it comes to talking about the United States. Because the reality in Africa is that it is a beautiful, majestic and also incredibly dangerous continent. When writing about superheroes here in the States, there is a lot of stuff I have to make up. That's just my function. In Africa you truly do have revolutions and wars being fought, dictators being overthrown, governments trying to be instituted where there are warlords or entire armies made up of children -- just crazy, over the top stuff that should be the stuff of fiction but isn't. These are the things we get to tap into, this is the landscape we get to work in and the canvas we get to work on, along with the superheroes. It is high adventure, don't get me wrong. Lots of guys in costume, lots of super bad guys, but set against this volatile landscape, which will make it interesting

(interview here: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32731 )

Date: 2011-07-28 01:59 am (UTC)
marco: (Rita)
From: [personal profile] marco
Oh man... Hm. Yeah. I don't know what to feel at all now. vuv;

That wording was... Well. I don't know. It wasn't all bad, but it felt so othering at times. Earlier while I was out, I thought of how someone used "exotic" to describe a particular character and how while I like the sound of the word (because I used it all the time growing up), I've come to hate it because it is very othering. The whole premise is how "different" it makes the subject, and it's one of those things to me that comes off feeling like when people try to justify the model minority thing. ("Oh, you're Asian, so you must be smart!" ; Totally doesn't see how racially insensitive if not outright racist that statement is.)

Also, it does feel like it comes from such a place of privilege. It's like the matter where people don't believe something is feminist unless a man points it out, and it also reminds me a little of a post (and some connected links) from Racialicious about the novel and movie The Help. I think another part that bugs me about all this is he talks about it as if America doesn't have a lot of this stuff in its history (and sadly, some of it ongoing now). It's all kind of awkward.

I'm glad at least that Winick won't try to politicize the comic and anything (going by what he says), but again, I don't like that he feels that stuff has come up just because the comic is set in Africa. (And again, in his very first lines, he calls Africa dangerous. He probably means a very kind of dangerous than is typically used for the NA, but it's phrased as though plenty of people here don't live dangerous lives. It's the implications that go with it to me.)

On the plus side, I'm interested in what he'll do with the supporting cast. On the down side, I'm sad that it sounds like Africa only has one superhero (or at least, Bat family member) to cover it. The parallel to the Batfamily of Gotham to Batwing's is close yet distant there.

It all feels kind of touch and go... From everything about what Winick sees Africa as, how he parallels Africa to the US and the way his research sounds. I'm glad he's doing research, but to me, it doesn't make me feel like we're going to get something out of it the way we did when Bryke thoroughly researched for AtLA. It feels kind of close, but kind of stunted because of this focus on the "danger" and "corrupt" and "ravaged" aspect. (I say focus because he brings it up a lot.)

Really, we can only wait and see. I think I may be more interested in how discussions and impressions here will go when scans are finally posted, more than I'm interested in the comic itself.


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