kirke_novak: (Marvel: Captain America)
[personal profile] kirke_novak posting in [community profile] scans_daily

We still don't know who the enemy is (my money on Skrulls), I don't believe it's Loki
I already ship Natasha/Loki
Steve has a gun, all is right with the world
Don't like how they just attached Hulk at the end - is he in the film for just 3 seconds?

Date: 2011-10-11 03:52 pm (UTC)
dewinged: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dewinged
It's very cool, but I find the lack of more female Avengers really annoying.

Date: 2011-10-11 05:33 pm (UTC)
baihu: (Default)
From: [personal profile] baihu
Well, only the Wasp was in the original line-up as a female, I guess it's unfortunately fairly accurate.

I seriously do NOT want the soap opera level drama mess of a team that is the West Coast Avengers anywhere near this movie. Scarlet Witch, Mockingbird, nonononononononononono...

Tigra would be cool though. And I expect Wasp would appear sooner or later in one of the movies.

Date: 2011-10-11 05:46 pm (UTC)
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)
From: [personal profile] kenn_el
It would be fun if the teaser at the end (you know there's got to be one) would intro a female Avenger, like Wanda or Jan. OR Bruce/Hulk gives a blood transfusion to Tony's new legal advisor during the course of the film. (Nothing wrong with Natasha, but she's got no super-powers and her skill set's reflected in both Cap and Hawkeye).

Date: 2011-10-11 06:29 pm (UTC)
baihu: (Default)
From: [personal profile] baihu
I'm hoping She-Hulk replaces Hulk in the next movie. It makes the most sense, Hulk's the most replaceable and the most unsuccessful of the individual movies, and it really adds to the dynamic of the team.

Date: 2011-10-11 06:41 pm (UTC)
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)
From: [personal profile] kenn_el
Absolutely. Hulk's the only member I'm not excited about. She-Hulk would be fun!

Date: 2011-10-11 08:25 pm (UTC)
meowshi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] meowshi
The 2008 Hulk movie is one of my favorite comic book movies ever.

I'd be so much more excited about him being in the movie if it wasn't a third actor portraying him in less than a decade.

Date: 2011-10-11 06:12 pm (UTC)
salinea: Magneto going *?* (wtf)
From: [personal profile] salinea
Well, only the Wasp was in the original line-up as a female, I guess it's unfortunately fairly accurate.
yes, let's hold movies released in the 2010's to the standard of comics written in the 1960's.

Date: 2011-10-11 06:27 pm (UTC)
baihu: (Big guns!)
From: [personal profile] baihu
Any reason for the snark? I was just pointing it out, and the fact Loki is here in this movie is also a reference to Avengers #1.

I'm more concerned with your hostility. Where is it coming from?

Date: 2011-10-11 06:32 pm (UTC)
salinea: anthy is watching you and her eyeglasses are all shiny (creepy anthy)
From: [personal profile] salinea
For me, answering complains about lack of female characters with "but it's accurate!" falls in a pattern that is... problematic. And all too frequent. Hence the snark.

Date: 2011-10-11 06:42 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
Honestly, I think the real reason is that they don't want to include anyone on the team that didn't already have their own origin movie. I mean, the only reason Hawkeye and Widow are on the team is because in this version they're SHIELD agents so they were easy to introduce as cameo/secondary character in someone else's movie.

Date: 2011-10-11 06:49 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
See, the fact that we're not very likely to see a movie centered on a female superhero is also a big part of the problem, so the too aren't exactly not correlated to one another.

Date: 2011-10-11 07:03 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] omgwtflolbbqbye
Also, in the case of Janet, she, along with Hank might be tied up cause Edgar Wright's Ant-Man movie is still being developed.

But I hope we get a post-credit cameo introduction to an Agent/Captain/Major Carol Danvers at the end of the movie like the Fury one in IM1... I mean if the movie is going to introduce Skrulls, Kree mythology is just around the corner, right?

Date: 2011-10-11 07:50 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
They gave up on deadpool? :(

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] salinea - Date: 2011-10-11 08:08 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-10-11 08:05 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] omgwtflolbbqbye
I think so. Edgar Wright is still talking it up, but it we'll be getting Captain America 2 and IM3 before then. It'll probably be part of the wave of Marvel Studio projects that are supposed to come out after that, which might include Luke Cage and Doctor Strange.

As for Deadpool, I don't know what happened, cause I remember they signed a director, then GL bombed, then nothing came out after, but I know it's a Fox joint independent of the Marvel films.

Also I think Runaways is still slated to be Marvel Studio's first young-superhero franchise, so we'd probably have to wait for that to come out *and* do well, before Marvel would consider doing YA.

Date: 2011-10-11 07:03 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] abriel
I don't know, I can see the point. I mean the SHIELD agent thing, there are a lot of female Avengers such as Ms. Marvel and Spider-Woman who are also SHIELD agents and they could have tossed them in. Not so much Jessica since Spider-Man is still a Sony property and putting in Jessica might have made things open to lawsuits and complications, but I know there was a rumor for awhile that Carol would be making an appearance. Wasp also could have been explained as having to do with SHIELD.

So I can understand the annoyance at not having more female characters.

It still won't stop me from jumping to the midnight showing for this though.

Date: 2011-10-11 08:34 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
What I meant was, those two are non-powered humans. They're just spies, which are easy enough to shoehorn in as supporting characters ("Hi, I'm Nick Fury and this is one of my best agents!"), which let's be honest, they kind of are (notice the trailer puts the most focus on Thor, Cap and Iron Man--we all know why). That cuts out the need to do a superhero origin. Maria Hill is in this movie, too, and she's the same way.

Date: 2011-10-11 10:48 pm (UTC)
terra: (sharon)
From: [personal profile] terra
But Hawkeye isn't a SHIELD agent in 616, it's actually a pretty big departure from his origin that they made to slot him into the film. In Ultimates Hank and Jan were introduced as SHIELD scientists, too, iirc.

Carol Danvers also has heavy SHIELD associations in the Ultimate universe and a military/spy background in all versions that slots in pretty easy with the movieverse mood.

But they chose to use Hawkeye, circus archer ex-villain, and adapt him to suit the films, rather than a character who isn't a dude.

I mean, I admit it's partially due to Clint being a perennial, iconic member and also due to budget, but, still.

Date: 2011-10-11 10:54 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (Carol Vulcan)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
Carol could have been brought in through Iron Man as an Air Force buddy of Rhodey's. :D

Date: 2011-10-11 11:58 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
As I clarified in my other reply above, it's less about what organization they belong to and more about WHAT they are.

There's a really, really big difference between "Here's one of our SHIELD agents, he's been trained as an expert marksman" and "Here's one of our SHIELD agents, she's boinking Ant-Man, so he gave her shrinking powers" or "Here's one of our SHIELD agents, she was in an accident involving an alien device, so now she can fly and have super-strength."

Those need (and I'd argue DESERVE) elaborate origins that are not as simple as "these guys are highly trained spies," which you can sideline Hawkeye and Widow as, given their powerset. I don't really want to see Jan or Carol show up just for the sake of showing up and they're nothing but regular ol' gun-toting SHIELD agents. Do you?

As for non-616 versions, in The Ultimates, Jan's origin is that she's a mutant born with her powers. I'm not sure they can go with mutants in the movie, since The X-Men franchise is by a different studio. Ultimate Carol isn't even Ms. Marvel, just a SHIELD director with no powers whatsoever. Again, I don't think fans are clamoring to see that.

Date: 2011-10-12 12:27 am (UTC)
terra: (jessica)
From: [personal profile] terra
Ah, but Hawkeye and Black Widow both have origins outside SHIELD, themes the same way any other character does. I think the budget constraints and heavy espionage tones make them logical choices for this film, but don't mistake no powers for no origin story. And, in both Ultimate and 616 verse, Black Widow isn't just a normal human— she has enhancements similar to Steve Rogers, they just get to be left vague because no one will ever treat her story as something as worth telling as Steve's. You're shortchanging those two characters by treating them as a skillset while arguing that other characters deserve to be treated as more than just their powers.

However, I don't think you need an origin story to have a hero appear, and appear interesting, especially in a shared universe context that the Avengers film so bombastically presents itself as. Plenty of characters are introduced in comics years before we get their proper origin. Absolutely, Nick Fury could present Carol Danvers as codename Ms. Marvel, someone who flies and punches things hard and is a complete mystery to the rest of the team, but who obviously has her own motivations for doing things, that are hinted at in her actions but never explicitly spelt out. (Hell, maybe we don't even know her name is Carol until the end of the movie.) Why does she know so much about the Skrulls? That's set up for a sequel, etc.

And yeah, I'd love to see Jan or Carol show up as SHIELD agents, that would be preferable to me to a universe where they do not exist at all. Basically: the reason there are so few women in this film is because they chose to make it that way. Precedent helped, but they chose to follow that precedent, instead of conceiving of a way that would be less sausagefesty, instead of having a worse female to male ratio than the original 1964 Stan Lee era team.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] halloweenjack - Date: 2011-10-12 12:48 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] terra - Date: 2011-10-12 04:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-10-11 08:55 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (Carol and Jessica)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
I seriously do NOT want the soap opera level drama mess of a team that is the West Coast Avengers anywhere near this movie. Scarlet Witch, Mockingbird, nonononononononononono...

Yeah, none of those West Coast drama mongers like Iron Man and Hawkeye oh wait.

Date: 2011-10-11 09:32 pm (UTC)
drmcninja: (Default)
From: [personal profile] drmcninja
There's an Ant-Man movie in production, so my money is that she's mentioned in that as a civilian, and shows up as a hero in the probable sequel.

Date: 2011-10-12 02:16 am (UTC)
moodring54: (Default)
From: [personal profile] moodring54
I'd love to see She Hulk, Ms. Marvel or Spider Woman. I'm not really interested in Wasp and/or Ant-Man and I don't think Marvel Studios has the rights for Wanda anymore, since she's kind of tied up in the X-Men stuff.


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