flint_marko: (Spider-Man)
[personal profile] flint_marko posting in [community profile] scans_daily








Peter goes after Strange, demanding to know how Carlie could have uncovered his identity after his spell.



The thing he has to do is give MJ the antidote, since she still has her spider-powers.

Also, Kaine is now scarless, and from the looks of it I'm guessing he's going to be the new Scarlet Spider. I liked what they did with Kaine when they brought him back (before 'killing' him off), but I'm not too crazy about prettifying him and making him some sort of superhero. And why tease the possibility of bringing Ben back?

And Julia Carpenter, the new Madame Web (I still don't understand why they had to kill off the old one and make her the new one) apologizes to Peter about the loss that's to come.

Date: 2011-11-02 05:14 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Except Peter has perfectly valid reasons not to tell her he's Spider-Man. It's an old chestnut, but the 'villains will hurt you to get to me' line is pretty on the mark here. I mean, Hell, she could've been dangerously hurt and not just humiliated by ending up nude in public with this story, and that's just because of some whacko turning everyone into spiders. If he told her, it opens up the door for everyone going after her or whatever, as per usual. Of course, the potential for that is still here.

And she's only in the right if you actually bought in to Slott's rather pathetic attempts to make her an awesome girlfriend; As it is, roller-derby's cooler when Ellen Page is doing it, and the tattoo stuff was a joke. Most fans seem to take every approach they've tried with her as a desperate, straw-clutching attempt to make her cool and likeable and someone worth keeping around. As it is, she's justifiably right in being angry about Peter lying to her, but you'd think she'd be more understanding about WHY he's lying.

Date: 2011-11-02 05:40 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Let's be clear here: being Spiderman's pal is REALLY GODDAMN DANGEROUS. Being related to Spiderman is even worse.

Gwen Stacy: DEAD.
Captain Stacy: DEAD.
May Parker: Fiance dead. Stages Death. Threatened repeatedly. Shot. Brainwashed and turned against family.
Betty Brant: Husband becomes supervillain. Goes Insane.
Ned Leeds: Becomes Supervillain
Flash Thompson: Too many too list.
Anyone named Osborn: OMFG.

Carlie is being unfair here. Now, it's understandable why she'd react this way...but given his life history, it's really not surprising at all that Peter would keep his secret. I mean, they talk about the old Parker Luck...but really, compared to his friends, Peter is the luckiest guy around. I mean, DAMN.

Date: 2011-11-02 05:58 pm (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
Speaking of people knowing Pete's secret ID:

How the hell does the Jackal still know it? I dunno how this is JUST coming to me, but per the mystic mumbo jumbo which was still in tact back when Spider-Island started, he could not have possibly known. I mean freakin' NORMAN OSBORN doesn't know any more, and him knowing used to be the only thing that made him a legitimately threatening villain. God damn is that a plot hole big enough to drive a truck through.

Date: 2011-11-02 06:36 pm (UTC)
alexanderlucard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexanderlucard
Probably all of his old research notes and pieces of Peter Parker clones lying around.

Date: 2011-11-02 06:52 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
And yet Norman Osborn didn't know?

Date: 2011-11-02 07:48 pm (UTC)
alexanderlucard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexanderlucard
Norman doesn't have an abundance of failed clones with Peter Parker's face and Spider-Man's powers lying around though.

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Date: 2011-11-02 07:08 pm (UTC)
cainofdreaming: cain's mark (pic#364829)
From: [personal profile] cainofdreaming
And Norman wouldn't have several hideouts with the walls full of words like - "Kill the Spider. Kill the Parker. Kill the Spider. Peter, Peter, Peter... maybe I'll kill you with a parking meter?" - scrawled on them with his fingernails?

Also, everyone who put it on their facebook page or diary when Peter first unmasked himself also knows?

Date: 2011-11-02 07:51 pm (UTC)
alexanderlucard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexanderlucard
A facebook pic for sure would do that, but someone would have to go back looking for that. Just having something written like "Peter Parker is Spider-Man" wouldn't work.

According to this to break the spell Peter either has to be unmasked or unmask himself to someone. He hasn't done that with Osborn. However, the Jackal has what, video footage of his cloning technique, Peter's DNA, Ben Reilly, Kaine, Spidercide and several other stupid things to fall back on that could be the cause. I don't like it either but at least with the Jackal there are a lot of easy excuses as to why he remembers.

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Date: 2011-11-02 07:13 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
But the magic-crap previously in place thanks to Strange should, as it seems, turn anything indicating 'Peter Parker = Spider-Man' and stuff like that as mumbo-jumbo, right?

Unless we're saying that Jackal figured it out again thanks to Peter being dumb enough to talk about his 'new' powers on the internet, which is impossible, I think, in terms of the storyline's progression.

Date: 2011-11-02 07:47 pm (UTC)
alexanderlucard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexanderlucard
Well the key here is the "unmasking himself to others."

It's a visual, not verbal. My guess would be that the Jackal has video footage of his experiments, plus all of his Ben Reilly and Kaine stuff. With the dna, experiments and the like lying around, it would have been impossible for the Jackal not to have something of Peter or Ben or Kaine (all the same person visually) and if someone that looks like peter having spider powers would trigger the spell to be broken, then the jackal has enough of his own creations that could trigger that.

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Date: 2011-11-02 07:58 pm (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
Thing is, under the specific terms of the hoojoo that wouldn't matter. He could have a thousand Parker clones with spider powers and he wouldn't be able to figure it out, because as shown in this issue, the only way anyone could find out his identity was if Pete intentionally revealed it.

Like I said. Truck-sized hole.

Date: 2011-11-02 08:13 pm (UTC)
alexanderlucard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexanderlucard
Yeah, but he's got that due to the clones. He's got to have footage of Peter unmasking or even Ben Reilly thinking he's Spider-Man saying "I AM SPIDER-MAN"

My personal thought is it goes like this.

"Hmmm. What to watch tonight? Porn. Gay Porn. Dwarf Porn. Furrie Porn. Wait what's this? "Peter Parker/Ben Reilly/Spider-Man footage #235. Nyahahahaha! How could I have forgotten this video? It must be all these men having a three way! Perhaps I can use Spider-Man's homosexual love of Peter Parker against him in some way!"

15 minutes later....

"HOLY CRAP! PETER PARKER IS SPIDER-MAN! HOW DID I NOT REMEMBER THIS?"

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Date: 2011-11-02 06:20 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Not directly, no.....but most of them happened because of association with Peter and Spiderman. How many people were duped into the Hobgoblin business who all had direct connections to Peter and Spiderman? Almost all of them are just one step away and were part of the domino chain that he starts. I mean, he didn't drive Betty crazy, but Betty went crazy because of all the spiderman-related craziness in her life.

I didn't even include the number of times Mary Jane was a target or people near Peter were put in danger because a villain knew that Peter himself had a relationship of sorts with Spiderman. How many times has a villain sought him out because he was Spidey's unofficial photographer?

Point being: Peter's not just being cautious, he's got stacks of police report blotters to remind him of why being associated with Spiderman is a dangerous thing and why revealing that secret is not something done lightly. It's not like revealing you don't like onions, tattoos or circumcision. :)

Date: 2011-11-02 07:00 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Fair point.

Of course, Peter doesn't know he's a protagonist, or he'd realize this. :)

Date: 2011-11-02 05:57 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: (ask the questions)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
Anyone named Osborn: OMFG.

Hey, what happened to Harry....? after that whole "American Son" thing he just kinda disappeared... wasn't bringing him back on fo the big things about BND?

Date: 2011-11-02 05:59 pm (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
If I recall correctly, he took his and Menace's kid and went on the lam.

Date: 2011-11-02 05:47 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
But that's the disconnect I was talking about. Readers don't see her as awesome, but in-universe, everybody does. Even the ex fawns over her and thinks she's hot shit wrapped in gold foil. So when you've got this supposedly picture perfect character being betrayed and wronged, you've got to narratively bend over backwards to justify why she deserves it.

Consequently, why I've never been down with the old "I can't tell you because DANGER!" excuse is because the underlying implication of that is "I can't tell you because I don't trust you enough not to blab." It's a good reason not to have the whole world know, or not to have your villains know, but it's not a good enough reason not to tell the person you're sharing a life with, unless you just plain don't trust them to keep the secret. And finding out that your loved one doesn't trust you, no matter how right the decision is, can be very hurtful, which is what I interpreted Carlie's reaction to be.

I also find it insane to start a serious relationship with someone and hiding the fact that there's a potential life-threatening danger to either one of you. As you say, the potential is still there, and it's incredibly unethical to rob someone the opportunity to weigh in all the facts before they walk into a situation. Yeah, I understand that every superhero ever have this dilemma: "Al I want is a normal liiiiife." But it's impossible for me to get behind justifying the secrecy. That's why we appreciate the supportive love interests who do know, like how MJ and Lois used to be. Which is not to say I want them all to have this dynamic. I'm just saying that when a hero goes down this total secrecy route, you have to take the douchiness of it into account, and in this case, with Peter Parker and Carlie, I find the whole thing very misguided.

Date: 2011-11-02 09:05 pm (UTC)
stillanerd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stillanerd
Agreed. Also, in this particular instance, Peter really had ZERO reason to lie to Carlie. In the first place, she's a cop. A forensic scientist, yes, but a cop just the same. If the question was Peter was trying to protect Carlie, she at least supposedly has a fighting chance in that she supposedly has training to protect herself (although a lot of good it did her against the White Rabbit). In fact, her being a member of the NYPD already put her in a high risk category. What's more, she actually LIKED Spider-Man and considered him her best friend. After all, she DID get a tattoo of him, told Peter she considered Spidey one of the good guys, and was estatic when Peter told her he was Spidey's "gadget guy." So all the traditional reasons for the "I can't tell her I'm Spider-Man because that would put her in danger" didn't really apply in this case. What it really showed that, given MJ's warning about how he needed to tell her sooner or later and his saying "I want her to love me as plain old Peter Parker" back in ASM #652, and given that he's more broken up over how Carlie found out rather than her dumping him, it pretty much suggests that he really didn't love her all that much to begin with.

Date: 2011-11-02 10:15 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Peter really had ZERO reason to lie to Carlie. In the first place, she's a cop.

Given that Spider-Man seems to spend most of his time as a vigilante being actively sought by the Police, I'd say that was a bloody good reason right there.

Date: 2011-11-02 10:38 pm (UTC)
stillanerd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stillanerd
Normally, yes. But in this case, Spidey, being an Avenger, isn't exactly wanted by the cops at this point. But even taking that into account, Carlie was already an ally to Spider-Man and considered him a friend and "one of the good guys." After all, that was the reason why she didn't turn Captain Watanabee in when she found out she was the Wraith, so that in itself was a hint to Peter that he, if he was worried that Carlie would turn him into the cops, he had no reason to fear.

Date: 2011-11-02 10:55 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Spidey is an Avenger, but is still not trusted, the extent that he is denied any compensation for his services because he has not unmasked.

Date: 2011-11-03 07:02 am (UTC)
stillanerd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stillanerd
True. But what I'm saying is that even though the police by and large are suspicious of Spidey, Carlie didn't. She was always depicted as considering Spider-Man one of the good guys, always giving him tips. Heck, she was one of the few people in the NYPD during the whole "spider-tracer killer" storyline running through Brand New Day who believed in Spidey's innocence. In that sense, Carlie, like Captain Stacy, Jean DeWolfe, and Detective Lamont was a cop who was also Spidey's ally.

Date: 2011-11-02 09:54 pm (UTC)
newnumber6: (themainpoint)
From: [personal profile] newnumber6
Agreed, even though I hate Carlie, I don't buy the "but I didn't tell you to protect you," excuse, because everyone's in trouble by being around Spider-Man whether they know or not, the only reason somebody would be in MORE trouble because Spidey revealed himself is if they're a screw-up who won't know how to handle it, or they're routinely around mind-readers. Otherwise, the person who takes the brunt of the danger in such a revelation is Peter himself.

Now, I do think that there is a window of time where you can be in a relationship with someone and not tell them, because you do have to build up a certain trust level to confess such a big secret that not only potentially puts you in great danger, but also everyone you have any kind of relationship with (both romantic and family/friendships), if somebody turns out to be NOT worthy of the trust. I'd say if you're at a point with regular sleepovers and/or "I love yous" have been exchanged, you've crossed out of the window (I don't read the books, just scans, so I don't actually know if they're at either point yet)... the first because it puts you in the vicinity and thus danger a lot more than a friend or casual acquaintance would be, and the second because, well, I don't know, it just seems right... if you're not ready to follow it up with a "but there's something you need to know", you'd better be ready to follow it up with "...but for reasons I can't disclose, we can't be together."

And in this scene I think even if they weren't at that point, ultra-jerkiness comes in after the first lie gets demolished (considering Carlie knows he wasn't in the bedroom and isn't freaking out about OMG I WAS JUST IN THERE AND YOU WEREN'T THERE WHERE DID YOU COME FROM, but is just all calmly "yeah, I'm going to go.") and he keeps trying to lie. You don't have to necessarily tell the truth in that situation, even a "I've got things I can't tell you" is fine, but continuing to try to make up lame stories shows a fundamental lack of respect.

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