flint_marko: (Spider-Man)
[personal profile] flint_marko posting in [community profile] scans_daily

Peter goes after Strange, demanding to know how Carlie could have uncovered his identity after his spell.

The thing he has to do is give MJ the antidote, since she still has her spider-powers.

Also, Kaine is now scarless, and from the looks of it I'm guessing he's going to be the new Scarlet Spider. I liked what they did with Kaine when they brought him back (before 'killing' him off), but I'm not too crazy about prettifying him and making him some sort of superhero. And why tease the possibility of bringing Ben back?

And Julia Carpenter, the new Madame Web (I still don't understand why they had to kill off the old one and make her the new one) apologizes to Peter about the loss that's to come.

Date: 2011-11-02 05:47 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
But that's the disconnect I was talking about. Readers don't see her as awesome, but in-universe, everybody does. Even the ex fawns over her and thinks she's hot shit wrapped in gold foil. So when you've got this supposedly picture perfect character being betrayed and wronged, you've got to narratively bend over backwards to justify why she deserves it.

Consequently, why I've never been down with the old "I can't tell you because DANGER!" excuse is because the underlying implication of that is "I can't tell you because I don't trust you enough not to blab." It's a good reason not to have the whole world know, or not to have your villains know, but it's not a good enough reason not to tell the person you're sharing a life with, unless you just plain don't trust them to keep the secret. And finding out that your loved one doesn't trust you, no matter how right the decision is, can be very hurtful, which is what I interpreted Carlie's reaction to be.

I also find it insane to start a serious relationship with someone and hiding the fact that there's a potential life-threatening danger to either one of you. As you say, the potential is still there, and it's incredibly unethical to rob someone the opportunity to weigh in all the facts before they walk into a situation. Yeah, I understand that every superhero ever have this dilemma: "Al I want is a normal liiiiife." But it's impossible for me to get behind justifying the secrecy. That's why we appreciate the supportive love interests who do know, like how MJ and Lois used to be. Which is not to say I want them all to have this dynamic. I'm just saying that when a hero goes down this total secrecy route, you have to take the douchiness of it into account, and in this case, with Peter Parker and Carlie, I find the whole thing very misguided.

Date: 2011-11-02 09:05 pm (UTC)
stillanerd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stillanerd
Agreed. Also, in this particular instance, Peter really had ZERO reason to lie to Carlie. In the first place, she's a cop. A forensic scientist, yes, but a cop just the same. If the question was Peter was trying to protect Carlie, she at least supposedly has a fighting chance in that she supposedly has training to protect herself (although a lot of good it did her against the White Rabbit). In fact, her being a member of the NYPD already put her in a high risk category. What's more, she actually LIKED Spider-Man and considered him her best friend. After all, she DID get a tattoo of him, told Peter she considered Spidey one of the good guys, and was estatic when Peter told her he was Spidey's "gadget guy." So all the traditional reasons for the "I can't tell her I'm Spider-Man because that would put her in danger" didn't really apply in this case. What it really showed that, given MJ's warning about how he needed to tell her sooner or later and his saying "I want her to love me as plain old Peter Parker" back in ASM #652, and given that he's more broken up over how Carlie found out rather than her dumping him, it pretty much suggests that he really didn't love her all that much to begin with.

Date: 2011-11-02 10:15 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Peter really had ZERO reason to lie to Carlie. In the first place, she's a cop.

Given that Spider-Man seems to spend most of his time as a vigilante being actively sought by the Police, I'd say that was a bloody good reason right there.

Date: 2011-11-02 10:38 pm (UTC)
stillanerd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stillanerd
Normally, yes. But in this case, Spidey, being an Avenger, isn't exactly wanted by the cops at this point. But even taking that into account, Carlie was already an ally to Spider-Man and considered him a friend and "one of the good guys." After all, that was the reason why she didn't turn Captain Watanabee in when she found out she was the Wraith, so that in itself was a hint to Peter that he, if he was worried that Carlie would turn him into the cops, he had no reason to fear.

Date: 2011-11-02 10:55 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Spidey is an Avenger, but is still not trusted, the extent that he is denied any compensation for his services because he has not unmasked.

Date: 2011-11-03 07:02 am (UTC)
stillanerd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stillanerd
True. But what I'm saying is that even though the police by and large are suspicious of Spidey, Carlie didn't. She was always depicted as considering Spider-Man one of the good guys, always giving him tips. Heck, she was one of the few people in the NYPD during the whole "spider-tracer killer" storyline running through Brand New Day who believed in Spidey's innocence. In that sense, Carlie, like Captain Stacy, Jean DeWolfe, and Detective Lamont was a cop who was also Spidey's ally.

Date: 2011-11-02 09:54 pm (UTC)
newnumber6: (themainpoint)
From: [personal profile] newnumber6
Agreed, even though I hate Carlie, I don't buy the "but I didn't tell you to protect you," excuse, because everyone's in trouble by being around Spider-Man whether they know or not, the only reason somebody would be in MORE trouble because Spidey revealed himself is if they're a screw-up who won't know how to handle it, or they're routinely around mind-readers. Otherwise, the person who takes the brunt of the danger in such a revelation is Peter himself.

Now, I do think that there is a window of time where you can be in a relationship with someone and not tell them, because you do have to build up a certain trust level to confess such a big secret that not only potentially puts you in great danger, but also everyone you have any kind of relationship with (both romantic and family/friendships), if somebody turns out to be NOT worthy of the trust. I'd say if you're at a point with regular sleepovers and/or "I love yous" have been exchanged, you've crossed out of the window (I don't read the books, just scans, so I don't actually know if they're at either point yet)... the first because it puts you in the vicinity and thus danger a lot more than a friend or casual acquaintance would be, and the second because, well, I don't know, it just seems right... if you're not ready to follow it up with a "but there's something you need to know", you'd better be ready to follow it up with "...but for reasons I can't disclose, we can't be together."

And in this scene I think even if they weren't at that point, ultra-jerkiness comes in after the first lie gets demolished (considering Carlie knows he wasn't in the bedroom and isn't freaking out about OMG I WAS JUST IN THERE AND YOU WEREN'T THERE WHERE DID YOU COME FROM, but is just all calmly "yeah, I'm going to go.") and he keeps trying to lie. You don't have to necessarily tell the truth in that situation, even a "I've got things I can't tell you" is fine, but continuing to try to make up lame stories shows a fundamental lack of respect.


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