espanolbot: (Default)
[personal profile] espanolbot posting in [community profile] scans_daily
I do find it somewhat amusing how people complain these days about how the Joker seems to murder everyone, as, really, that's pretty much all he did back in the day as well.

Here are some pages from his debut back in the early 1940s, which give a pretty good indication into his personality and method of crimes,

Yeah, he's pretty much even LESS joke themed than some of the modern interpretations, and is arguably just a really, really smart mass murdering jewel thief.

Also, he hadn't quite gotten the nack for banter than he later developed through his conflict with Batman,

These pages are from the Dark Knight Archives, Volume One, which includes a lot of Mr J's early capers, Catwoman's debut and her feud with the Joker, and Batman's plan to kidnap an injured Joker from a prison hospital and lobotomise him to make him a "valuable" citizens.

Comparision with the modern comicbook Joker? Well the original had more of a financial motive behind his crimes, and only really killed people to scare people or just out of personal spite, unlike the modern people who (depending on who is writing) has dead people as the end result of his capers instead of a means to an end.

Tonally which of the newer versions is he like? Well bits of Heath Ledger's Joker, the planning genius behind his crimes is very similar, whilst the Gotham Underworld's plan to first kill the Joker and later band together under his rule also seems to be echoed in the recent movie. The relatively recent idea of the Joker being a personification of chaos again isn't present though. Mark Hammil one GENERALLY is pretty similar, in that he also was one for plans and stealing things. To an extent. The Joker is named as such because he looks like the playing card, and as such doesn't really do anything else clown-related at this point.

In comparision, Catwoman is pretty much the same as she was in the beginning, albeit she no longer robs people whilst wearing an ankle length skirt and headscarf. Or a freaky giant cathead. Interestingly both the Joker and Catwoman were introduced as masters of disguise, with Selina pretending to be an old lady to carry off heists and the Joker doing things like pretending to be a cop that's meant to be protecting one of his victims from himself.

They have recently released a book about the Joker and how he changed over the years, I reccomend it, it's an interesting read. It also expresses amusement over a strip from the 1950s in which Bob Kane explains how he created Batman, the Joker etc. entirely by himself with no help from anyone... even though Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson (the actual creator of the Joker) pretty much did at least some of the work, especially as Bob Kane had a knack for hiring ghost artists after a certain point in his career.

Date: 2011-11-10 09:10 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
I like this Joker- dangerous, deadly even, but not just a walking slaughterhouse.

That said, I like animated Joker more ^^

Date: 2011-11-10 09:50 am (UTC)
eyz: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eyz
Woah! Original "Bob Kane" Joker was even creepier than some of his modern interpretation, I think. Miles away from his Silver Age counterpart as well.

Date: 2011-11-10 10:00 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
He knocks Robin out with a truncheon because he was still in his policeman disguise and it was handy, and was about to inject him with Joker venom, which is about as trademark a gimmick as they come.

Also worth bearing in mind that the Joker hasn't met Batman by this point, there is none of the emnity we're used to now between them. This isn't being done particularly to spite Batman, but IN spite of him.

Date: 2011-11-10 01:46 pm (UTC)
eyz: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eyz
"This isn't being done particularly to spite Batman, but IN spite of him."

Which was kinda better than how his obsession with Bats has been shown recently... (I'm looking at Kevin Smith's Batman stories particularly)

Date: 2011-11-10 09:57 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Robin Joker Another day....)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Yeah, I have no problem with the Joker being a killer, it adds to the danger inherent in the character, but if that's ALL he is, then they've missed the point of the character IMHO.

It should be perfectly possible to go through an entire Joker story without him killing anyone (even a random henchmen) because it just never seems like the right moment to him (They could even make it a running gag). The THREAT of killing someone should always be present (He's the patron saint of the unrepressed Id in that respect) and murderous deathtraps are NEVER out of fashion (particularly for sidekicks being used as bait... or maybe that's just me).

Even in this, his first ever story, yes he's a killer, but he's not casually killing people at random for giggles or because he's bored. He has a plan, however weird it might seem, not only indulging his serial killer tendencies, but spreading fear and panic by killing people he has singled out and making it pubic that that is what he was going to do. He's defying the forces of law and order to stop him, and they (for the most part) FAIL.

He's also the embodiment of the creepy aspect of clowns, the unsettling painted on smile which masks whatever their real emotions are.

And as for Bob Kane, well, his ability to take credit for things he has little to no right to is well known.

Date: 2011-11-10 02:15 pm (UTC)
aeka: (Catwoman [happy kitty]:)
From: [personal profile] aeka
If I remember correctly, I do seem to recall Nolan saying that he was basing his Joker on the Joker's first two appearances in the comics.

That being said, I'd have to add that Batman himself has seen drastic changes over the course of his character history as well. He originally started out as a crook-murdering vigilante (snapping necks and tossing mobsters to their deaths were all part of his original modus operandi) before it was decided to make him abide by a strict "no-kill" rule. It should also be noted that during the Silver Age Batman displayed more conventional heroic traits before they brought him back to his dark roots in the Modern Age. Even though he still abided by the strict no-kill rule, he was still an arsehole to everyone he encountered and was just as crazy as the people he fought.

Date: 2011-11-10 04:06 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
I like the reference to Orson Welles' 1938 War Of The Worlds broadcast. :)

Date: 2011-11-11 03:18 am (UTC)
superfangirl1: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superfangirl1
I agree, that is really neat reference.

Date: 2011-11-10 06:19 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
I like this Bruce. I find the aristocratic aspect of Bruce is downplayed in modern versions.

“Not yet, Dick, not yet. The time isn’t ripe. [Lights pipe] [Leans back on chair] Alfred, bring us the moules à la crème Normande, would you? And also our boxing gloves, if you would be so kind, dear fellow.”

Date: 2011-11-11 04:00 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
See, for me, this is the definitive Joker moment.

I mean he's sitting there, looking all dour and forlorn, like a character from a Poe story.

Then he flashes that smile; that smile that screams "Run, run and never stop running because I will hunt you down and eat you" smile, and there's not a clean pair of drawers in the house.

Date: 2011-11-11 03:52 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-11-11 07:45 pm (UTC)
mrosa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrosa
Batman can talk underwater!

Date: 2011-11-12 04:32 am (UTC)
an_idol_mind: (Default)
From: [personal profile] an_idol_mind
One thing that bugs me about the modern Joker is his super murder powers.

I'm not talking about the kind of murder seen here, where he kills the guy from a distance and shows up the cops. That's typical comic book stuff. Moreover, the way it's explained shows the Joker as competent.

The modern Joker's super murder powers are obnoxious and involve everyone being stupid and incredibly easy to kill. He scratches a baby with a rusty nail - the parents don't notice their child bleeding, nobody diagnosis tetanus, and the nail is lethally effective despite the odds being in favor of nothing bad happening to the baby long-term. He causes somebody to slip on a banana peel, and they hit their heads and break their neck. He slips broken glass into a guy's tuna sandwiches, and the guy doesn't even notice.

DC seems to want the Joker to be their version of Hannibal Lecter. However, nothing he's done in the last decade has really shown him to be anything more than a guy who is surrounded by very incompetent, very fragile people.


scans_daily: (Default)
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