espanolbot: (Default)
[personal profile] espanolbot posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Here's some parts from the Judd Winick/Joshua Middleton four issue miniseries, First Thunder.

Four issues of thirty pages, 6 from issue 1, 7 from 2 and 3, and 10 from issue 4.

Part 1

Cutting to the present, and a gang of magic-wielding thieves have been stealing artefacts from various museums around the US. They attack a museum in Metropolis, battle Superman and then manage to get away due to Clark's weakness to magic. After Billy, who is living in a tent in an abandoned subway station, reads about the robberies in a newspaper he figures out that the museum in Fawcett City will likely have some stuff stolen too, as it's also got some of the artefacts in it. The issue ends with Cap beginning to fight some summoned trolls when Superman shows up to help out...

Issue Two
Sometime before the robberies above mentioned, Sivana is travelling to Metrpolis to ask Luthor who he deals with his costumed superhero, the doctor having finally had enough of Captain Marvel interferring with his schemes.

What follows is the DC villain version of the Daleks vs. Cybermen arguement from Doctor Who...

Back in the present, after defeating the trolls, Superman and Captain Marvel go and have a chat about being a superhero on Mount Everest, and a friendship seems to form between them.

Issue 3
It turns out that the artefacts were being stolen by occult thieves that Sivana had hired to act as a distraction so that Spec would be able to track easier, as well as the thieves themselves creating the double threat of incarnating the anti-Marvel Sabbac while causing Eclipso to possess his host at the same time. So on the one hand, they could kill Marvel or on the other they'd make him easier to follow.

This ultimately proves tobe unnecessary when it turned out that Spec managed to use his own powers to follow Cap, work out how his powers work and provide the information necessary to kill him to Sivana...

With this information in hand, Sivana calls in an assassination squad to kill Billy, thus getting rid of Captain Marvel once and for all. His assistant asks him isn't that somewhat drastic, and what if Spec's information was wrong? Sivana replies "Then I would be guilty of murdering an innocent child... I'll get over it."

Later, after Cap and Superman have defeated the pair of supervillains...

Issue 4
Billy turns into Captain Marvel, and defeats the hit squad with minimal effort, then turns... and sees that his friend has been shot right through the chest. He rushes him to hospital, but it's too late, he dies on the operating table.

Enraged, Billy storms the police station where the members of the assassination team are being held in custody. They've heard about Scott's death and they're making it very clear that they are in a very bad situation as a result, but still the hitmen refuse to talk. At least until Cap storms into the interrogation and threatens to squash people's heads until they tell him who hired them.

Meanwhile, Dr Sivana is also enraged, but that's because he's heard that they shot the wrong person. Cap then demolishes most of his headquarters and almost stranges him to death before just stopping and flying away. Sivana decides that this is a good time to go and hide a very long way away.

Clark meanwhile, reads about Cap's rampage in an article that Lois wrote, and flies to Everest to tell him for for endangering so many lives so recklessly.

Date: 2012-03-06 04:59 pm (UTC)
sherkahn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sherkahn
that page where Supes and the Wizard talk about the responsibility and weight of it, and Shazam quietly asks for help from Clark.. that got to me.

Date: 2012-03-06 05:00 pm (UTC)
amaniwolf: (Galactus)
From: [personal profile] amaniwolf
Alright, i got to say, i really did like this. I'm going to have to look for the TPB. I'd never thought about the ramifications of anyone finding out Billy is Marvel but i can totally understand Clark's horror at finding out. Thanks a lot for bringing this to my attention.

Date: 2012-03-06 05:01 pm (UTC)
amaniwolf: (Yay!!!)
From: [personal profile] amaniwolf
Word! You could see the weight of it on the Wizard, the art portrayed that very well.

Date: 2012-03-06 05:08 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
I tear up a bit every time I read this....even if that panel of Clark unbuttoning his shirt in front of Billy is creepy as hell out of context.

Date: 2012-03-06 05:12 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
Man, I freaking love this story. Judd Winick really kicked ass on this one. If the new run on Captain Marvel is even in this ballpark, I will be happy.

Also, what I like about this? It isn't explicitly an origin story. We learn Billy's origin naturally throughout it, but it doesn't go over the same thing we've seen over and over and over. More introductory comics need to do that.

Date: 2012-03-06 05:13 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
That whole scene is really sketchy out of context.

"Are you from social services?"


*unbuttons shirt*

Date: 2012-03-06 05:52 pm (UTC)
stubbleupdate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stubbleupdate
I thought I'd have got in before the molestation argument appeared.

Better luck next time.

Date: 2012-03-06 06:11 pm (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
It's weird how Winick could right THIS so well and write Billy so well then Trials of Shazam came which overturned the mythos, made everything more complicated, got rid of the only female Marvel (Coma!Mary) and then traded in Freddy for Billy (who was basically kicked upstairs with nothing to do) as the "hero" of the franchise for no real reason. And they were both written by the same guy.

Date: 2012-03-06 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kazeno
Well, this was a lot better than I expected. The scene where Superman talks about the first time he flew into space really stuck out; he seems so in awe of his own powers. It was a very humanizing moment for him. And this is the first time in my experience (which admittedly, is limited when it comes to Captain Marvel) where anyone became angry after finding out that Billy is Captain Marvel. Most superheroes seem to go "Huh, that's weird" and move on.

This miniseries is full of great little moments, it'd be too much to list them all. Except for the death of Billy's friend. That was just ridiculously predictable.

(Also, hi s_d, this is my first time posting! *waves*)

Date: 2012-03-06 07:17 pm (UTC)
salinea: Scarlett Witch hugging Billy and Tommy (*hugs*)
From: [personal profile] salinea
Welcome to the comm :D

Date: 2012-03-06 07:20 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (TheBlackCat Happy Terry)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk

Date: 2012-03-06 07:48 pm (UTC)
pyrotwilight: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pyrotwilight
Welcome to Scans_Daily Kazeno. Hope you survive the experience.

Date: 2012-03-06 08:23 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Not entirely sure about that, Shazam asks for help, but expresses no sympathy for Billy, no apology for the shit that he HAS thrown this kid into (especially considering that fate has already taken a few dumps on Billy, since he's an orphan, broke, one friend and not even a HOME)

Date: 2012-03-06 08:30 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The usual "Why CAN'T Shazam help make Billy's life a little better?" debate to one side, and the couple of cute scenes here and there, the washed out, very flat colours take me RIGHT out of this.

Plus, what kind of idiot assault plan on a kid they know can transform with a single, two-syllable word, involves storming the place that he lives in riot gear, ANNOUNCING yourself and THEN start firing.

You either A) Shoot first, B) Consider using a sniper or C) Get close enough (possibly by disguise) to stop him being able to say anything before you either attack him, or prevent him talking. After all the build up, this is a seriously weak-ass assault plan.

Date: 2012-03-06 08:54 pm (UTC)
weber_dubois22: (Kevin McKidd)
From: [personal profile] weber_dubois22
I know, right? Why doesn't Clark ever muss up his hair and take his glasses off sometimes (that's gotta be easier than unbuttoning your shirt or popping the buttons via shirt rip)?

Date: 2012-03-06 09:22 pm (UTC)
sherkahn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sherkahn
I think it's an acknowledgement of the Wizard that for all of his great power he's helpless in the welfare of the boy, as he is supposed to put Billy Batson through the wringer in his trials to become Captain Marvel by the "Powers that Be" and fate.

But he knows Superman can be there, to fulfill the supporting role the Wizard cannot/must not. To keep Billy from letting the day-to-day wounds from an impoverished youth fester and corrupt him.

Date: 2012-03-06 09:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
not really weird. In one his job was to create a story where the traditional Captain Marvel first met Superman. In the second his job was to turn the mythos on it's head.

Date: 2012-03-06 10:04 pm (UTC)
filkertom: (snapecake)
From: [personal profile] filkertom
And then your mini-series is over. :)

Seriously, everybody does something stupid once in a while. That's how the story keeps going. And it's not just the heroes who always get dumped on; every now and then, the breaks have to go their way. The reason the first Die Hard movie is so amazing is that nobody does anything stupid, and the story keeps going anyway. Would you have been happier if the trained snipers with night-vision goggles had all missed Billy?

(Having said that, it might have been interesting in a longer story arc for Billy to be shot and then transform, and Cap had to get himself to a hospital before he could change back.)

Not having read this one earlier, I like pretty much everything on these pages, including Supes taking Dumbled-, erm, Shazam to task, and laying into the notions of Fate and Destiny. Really nice stuff.


Date: 2012-03-06 10:31 pm (UTC)
capt_satellite: (Default)
From: [personal profile] capt_satellite
Very nice story. Thank you.

How would you guys feel about a Luthor/Sivana TPB?

You could call it "The Brave and the Bald".....

Date: 2012-03-06 10:35 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I'd have preferred if Billy had been shown to be ingenious enough to spot the snipers, or the stealth troops had overlooked something obvious to child logic (perhaps Billy, being a little uncertain of his safety in the station, laid a layer of potato chips around the entrance, so anyone heavy coming in would make loud crunching footsteps, giving him time to hide)

And well, yeah, someone has to carry the stupid baton now and again, but this is the plan put together by someone who came with a personal recommendation from LEX LUTHOR for Doctor Sivana, and THAT'S the best he could come up with?

I'm reminded of Rule 12 of the "Evil Overlord" list; "One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation."

Date: 2012-03-06 10:54 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
In this case taking his shirt off is the fastest way to show he's Superman (Short of flying, and he's seemingly keen on showing that he's also "Just plain folks"). If a strange guy comes in, takes his glasses off and ruffles his own hair, that's possibly even freakier and more suggestive for Billy to watch than the taking the shirt off.

Date: 2012-03-06 10:55 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
That... actually makes me feel a little better about it. :)

Date: 2012-03-06 11:09 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kksimone
Poor Scott. Your death was just tacky. Why kill an orphan's only friend when you can just keeping having Captain Marvel say ridiculous kid things to Superman?

(And does Clark do anything other than be a creeper and talk about himself? Yelling at Shazam that a kid's biggest worries should be homework and then potentially doing nothing for a homeless kid is kind of killing the whimsy for me. At least offer to take him out to lunch while you talk about yourself!)

Re: Wow.

Date: 2012-03-07 04:28 am (UTC)
goattoucher: (Cap)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher

Date: 2012-03-07 04:45 am (UTC)
lieut_kettch: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lieut_kettch
I wonder if it this meant (meant, past tense, seeing as this is all out of continuity now) that it was Clark Kent that inspired Billy to become a reporter.

Date: 2012-03-07 10:22 am (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
How the hell could this be written by the same guy, who wrote "that" run on Green Arrow and who is now writing Catwoman, I will never understand.

Date: 2012-03-07 12:00 pm (UTC)
arise: (power girl ♥ karen atlee huuug)
From: [personal profile] arise
Even if Clark comes off as a bit of a creeper out of context, I really do love this sequence. Gotta pick it up in trades sometime. It's great seeing Clark as just a sweet, caring guy.

I'm surprised it was Winick who wrote this, though - maybe I've misjudged him?

Date: 2012-03-07 03:45 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Like the Superman/Shazam DVD, where Clark is doing a series on homeless kids in Fawcett City and meets Billy (prior to him getting his powers) as an interview subject, but arranges to meet him in a diner, so he can at least give the poor kid a good meal for his trouble.

Re: Wow.

Date: 2012-03-07 10:38 pm (UTC)
superfangirl1: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superfangirl1
*You could call it "The Brave and the Bald".....*


Yes,please. :D

Date: 2012-03-07 11:21 pm (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
It's hard to tell Winick. For me, sometimes he's a pretty good writer and sometime he's awfully bad with little in-between.

Date: 2012-03-08 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
Yeah for a moment I was about to die WINICK DOING REALLY GOOD WRITING then a little kid died, maybe thats the moment Judd Winick thought he was showing a sign of apokalipsis too early, I mean WINNICK WRITTING A GOOD SCRIPT!

Then a kid dies... well maybe the movie is better, the "Red Hood" movie was one million times better than the comics and remains one of the best animation movies I´ve seen about Batman.

PD: Shazam indeed shows regret, look at the panel when he says "he is a boy... a boy that could use... guidance" that look broke my hearth. The art saved Winick´s ass in the last pages.

Date: 2012-03-08 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
When Judd Winick fails to deliver the artist save the day.

Date: 2012-03-08 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
I KNOW!! Here Judd Winick writes an awsome Billy and gives you hopes for a whole awsome Marvel Family series!

Then a kid dies and Winick keeps his medal of "mediocre writer" he almost shows he can write three perfect numbers (if the rest of the pages are as good as the ones showed here).

I miss the time an editor could say "You cant kill a kid just to show a darker side! try another way! .... he lives in the streets there are thousand of other ways!... Go Back To Work!"

Date: 2012-03-08 04:34 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
Really on the negative side eh?

You have to admit the thing was awsome till the "death kid part", the art I beautifull from were Im standing the colors remind me of the origial series, everything very yellow and red.

The raid was very messy, you cant just send "one sniper" when you are dealing with the power of shazam, in the fiction world Capitan Marvel is seing as a mayor threat and that sticks on you. Probably you send a mayor trained force of special oerations get close to him and shoot him in the back from afar, then you got the friend saving Billy or Billy "moving to get a magazine" for the lulz mixed with the dramatic charge, etc.

Look I write better than Winick! no surprises there. But you have to admit what you see before the assault is pretty good writing, even with the cliches, It has an old school vibe but still a modern touch.

Date: 2012-03-08 04:43 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
I agree completly, in ONE PANEL, one panel for god´s sake! It the only thing is needed to ruin a promisory series.

The interaction between Sivana and Luthor, the epic narration of Shazam, the Naive introduction of Billy "im just here to help", The conversation between Capitan Marvel and Superman about their powers, The incompetence of Supes about Magic Logic, the fact that Billy livng in the streets is not a source for overwhelming angst but still serves as a dramatic factor, Billy and his friend talking and seeing the news papers in something reminicent of a sleep over... GENIOUS!

Then some one hits the dog, a boy dies and stuff hapens and we are remembered this is a Winick comic, the man who thought Mia Dearden didnt had a dark enough background and gave her AIDS just because he won a lot of GLAAD awards with his dumb book about beign in MTV´s Real Life with an VIH positive member. "Look at me, I am Judd Winick and I got a Job because I was on TV".

Date: 2012-03-08 04:44 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
Forget the last thing, that was just mean.

Date: 2012-03-08 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
You should see the Red Hood movie, the script was writen by Judd Winick and is the best thing he has done in all his life.

Im thinking of buyin the 3 first numbers of this series, I cant stand when Winick thinks that a kid living in the streets, and with no one to love needs a dead friend so he can be "more darker". He did the same thing to Mia Dearden and is going to do the same thing to Selina, just wait.

At least he didnt make Billy be HIV positive for the sake of propaganda.

Date: 2012-03-08 05:51 pm (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
I've seen that movie and I love it. Which is funny, since I don't the like comic. And thats another thing I don't understand. The Batman comic by Winick-terrible, adaptation of the Batman comic by Winick, also done by Winick-fantastic.

Yeah, I don't like that thing with Mia either. Like, I don't hate the idea, but the way he did is just..... Its hardly even a plot point, it feels like its there for the sake of it.

Date: 2012-03-08 06:42 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
As a friend of mine said "I hated Winick before It was popular" LOL.

But yeah, Winick is more terrible for the fact of showing you bits of what "could have been". The only good writing of Winick has been the movie script for Red Hood, maybe if he did the script for a movie of this comic we could had a terrific Capitan Marvel story.


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