starwolf_oakley: (Default)
starwolf_oakley ([personal profile] starwolf_oakley) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2012-04-10 05:24 pm

Two panels from A VS. X #1 and some rambling.

Two panels from AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #1. And some rambling afterwards.

Where do I begin?

Cyclops is looking through rose-colored glasses (zing!) to think the Phoenix Force coming to Earth might be a good thing. Phoenix will fix things for mutants exactly how? There will be mutant births? And (as I've said before) those mutants won't get their powers until they are teenagers (minus any time travel tomfoolery). Unless they just "activate" like the Five Lights, which STILL doesn't make sense, even by X-Men standards.

It would be nice if Cyclops said "It has to be Hope's decision." Except Cyclops doesn't want it to be Hope's decision.

Captain America can't be wrong. That was the point behind Civil War. And why things fell apart during Secret Invasion, which led to Dark Reign. Yes, it can be annoying, and is why Iron Man was turned into a fascist. But that's how it is. Captain America can't be wrong.

One point that Cyclops *might* have is Cap being too far away from everything. Grant Morrison's reveal that Project: Rebirth and the Super Soldier Serum was originally supposed to kill mutants, not Nazis, may be a factor. (Thanks, Grant! I say sarcastically.)

So, basically, Captain America can't be wrong and Cyclops is an idiot with some minor points. Well, that resolves A VS. X for me!
brooms: (north wind)

[personal profile] brooms 2012-04-10 09:42 pm (UTC)(link)
franklin' galactus will eat them all and reboot the universe, gotta have faith
freezer: (Default)

[personal profile] freezer 2012-04-10 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, Cap's been wrong plenty (see: his surrender at the end of Civil War). The problem is that the writers invariably make everybody else even more wrong to compensate.

For example here: Cap expects Scott and the rest of the X-Men to fall in line and be good little soldiers, despite having inexplicably little real intel as to what the Phoenix actually is.

Scott, of course, rather than simply saying this goes into "OH YEAH? WHERE WERE YOU WHEN..?" mode.

So yeah... This is looking more and more like "Civil War with Mutants".
lascoden: Anarky (Default)

[personal profile] lascoden 2012-04-10 09:53 pm (UTC)(link)
My thinking: Hope has/is a fragment of the Phoenix, which gives her the ability to activate new mutant "Lights." If given access to the full PF, this would be amplified to levels that could restore the mutants. Or, she could just use the reality warping aspect of the PF to give mutants their powers back.

While they don't show it here, Hope has repeatedly said that this is what she wants. She said so in AvX #0. And Cap doesn't care about what she wants, either. He flat out said he wasn't asking when he came for Hope.

Also, hadn't someone posted some of AvX #1? Did it get deleted?
brooms: (Default)

[personal profile] brooms 2012-04-10 10:15 pm (UTC)(link)
yus, i think the op deleted the post because he was going over the number of pages permitted by the rules.

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auggie18: (Default)

[personal profile] auggie18 2012-04-10 09:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Note, the Phoenix has actually done a ton of really nice shit for everyone. Saved the universe, fought Galactus, helped out Rachel Summers during Excalibur. But does anyone remember that? No.

All they remember is the sun eating.
protogarrett: (Default)

[personal profile] protogarrett 2012-04-10 10:13 pm (UTC)(link)
This. Also, why did no one freak out when Rachel was holding the Phoenix Force? Did they forget they were doing just fine for YEARS? Or help her when her whole family was murderd?

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lencannon: shy guy (Default)

[personal profile] lencannon 2012-04-10 11:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Man, the Phoenix ISN'T always evil. Jean was fine* until the Hellfire Club messed with her. Rachel was fine, period. Jean was fine with the Phoenix the SECOND time she had it. That dude using the Phoenix sword seemed fine.

And Jean is still the White Phoenix Of the Crown so surely the force can be reasoned with.

of course it destroyed that planet in AvX 1 so who fucking knows I guess.

I'm with Cyclops although he needs to take a vacation.
lascoden: Anarky (Default)

[personal profile] lascoden 2012-04-11 11:45 am (UTC)(link)
He definitely needs one. Though, who would he leave in charge while he was gone? Magneto?

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[personal profile] hyperactivator 2012-04-10 11:35 pm (UTC)(link)
My personal belief is that this is the Phoenix Force from the Cancerverse. The reason it's killing everything in it's path? Thanos is the current host.

Our universes Pheonix Force is already on earth and going to fight the Cancer/Thanos Phoenix.

But that is most likely to awesome so it won't happen.

[personal profile] arilou_skiff 2012-04-10 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)
To be fair, the Phoenix force is literally godlike. If it wants more mutants it can probably create them out of jelly beans if it feels like it.
equinox216: (Beecannon)

[personal profile] equinox216 2012-04-11 05:39 am (UTC)(link)
Is this a backhanded, subliminal attempt to get them to bring back Doop?

Because if so I approve.

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stolisomancer: (Default)

[personal profile] stolisomancer 2012-04-10 11:42 pm (UTC)(link)
You know how there's that running gag in Wolverine and the X-Men where nobody pays any attention to Husk? I feel like the same gag's in AvX, but it's applied to Rachel Summers instead.

"We don't know what it's going to do when it gets here."
"I used it to bring people back to life and save the world a bunch."
"So we want to take Hope into protective custody."
"It's powerful, and can make you crazy, but if you keep a positive outlook it's not bad."
"Where were you the last few times mutants needed you?"
"I'd make sure you know exactly where Mastermind is at all times, though. Just FYI."
"Scott, don't be a dick."
"Guys, I'm right here."
"Up yours, Steve."
brooms: (charmed)

[personal profile] brooms 2012-04-10 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
but rachel seems to have forgotten she was a host as well. she shared a few pages with hope in legacy and it just never came up, the two didn't even talk.

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amaniwolf: (Bugs)

[personal profile] amaniwolf 2012-04-10 11:49 pm (UTC)(link)
This seems way off, first Scott went ape, he was hammering Hope to the point of kicking her when she was on the ground, that's not's just abuse. Then Cap came because the governement knows about the Phoenix, not just the heroes, and they wanted to put Hope in a place where they figure the Phoenix Force couldn't bond with her and start a Jean Grey mess all over again. Admittedly, it's kind of naive to think anyone can stop a primal forces of the universe, or make it do what they want, ....seriously, it's silly. But then you have Scott committing everyone to a war against the Avengers and the government they won't be able to win. How is this remotely smart? This first issue just had me shaking my head.
crabby_lioness: (Default)

[personal profile] crabby_lioness 2012-04-10 11:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Place your bets, who think this whole "event" is a scam to reboot the entire MU? The line starts behind me.
stolisomancer: (Default)

[personal profile] stolisomancer 2012-04-11 12:17 am (UTC)(link)
The fastest way to get Joe Quesada to not do something is to convince him that Dan Didio thinks it's a good idea. I don't see a reboot happening.

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[personal profile] md84 2012-04-11 02:19 am (UTC)(link)
Dealing with godlike forces is a pretty huge gamble. The Fantastic Four manage it on a fairly regular basis (though it helps that the one they deal with most often used to be a mortal humanoid and can be reasoned with despite his hunger pangs). Of course, the Four also never actually INVITE any of these beings to Earth. And let's face it, Cyclops is no Reed Richards.
anamnesis: (Default)

[personal profile] anamnesis 2012-04-12 12:13 am (UTC)(link)
Cyclops is no Reed Richards, but I'd imagine that he'd have more intimate knowledge of the Phoenix Force than most considering he's been romantically involved and married to its favorite genetics.

The Phoenix Force is an agent of not only the cycle of creation/destruction/life/death/rebirth, but also of change and evolution. That's why it's the cosmic entity most entangled with the X-men. Thematically they mesh.

Earth and humanity are too important in grand scheme of things for the Phoenix Force to want to destroy it. Eternity itself admitted to Jean that the future of humanity is to eventually replace the cosmic abstracts. There's no reason why the Phoenix would want to destroy the Earth. The world destroying that has gone on have been for evolutionary dead ends.

I would imagine that on some level, Jean would have communicated this information to Scott either directly or instinctively.

silverzeo: (Default)

[personal profile] silverzeo 2012-04-11 02:43 am (UTC)(link)
"Grant Morrison's reveal that Project: Rebirth and the Super Soldier Serum was originally supposed to kill mutants, not Nazis, may be a factor. :

Really? ... seems better than the whole "Deadpool project" in the Wolverine movie... though making an unkillable super mutant to kill other mutants is pretty stupid on itself...

Around this time, I was kinda wondering if they're going to make like a "Rock Lee" character into the X-Men mythos, where a character is naturally super strong and fast but WITHOUT an X-Gene, basically a human boderlining between homo-sapiens and homo-superior (I hate that name, nothing eases tension between species when one is called "superior") WITHOUT the use of radiation, magic, or alien dna/experiments. Someone is caught between the middle of human and mutant conflicts.... some other than the Creed "love son" and Ink...
mrstatham: (Default)

[personal profile] mrstatham 2012-04-11 09:10 am (UTC)(link)
I think the 'Rock Lee' type of character you describe has basically already been done, given there was that Vargas guy who initially killed Psylocke way back when in X-Treme X-Men? The guy was meant to have all sorts of natural skills but wasn't a mutant, or something.
auggie18: (ManHug)

[personal profile] auggie18 2012-04-11 04:31 am (UTC)(link)
So. Much. Love.
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)

[personal profile] shadowpsykie 2012-04-11 04:33 am (UTC)(link)
personally i think everyone seems to have forgotten that there have been OTHER phoenix hosts... one of them who is currently on logan's team...and jean grey didn't "Nearly control the phoenix" she was in complete control of it, rather they were in complete sybiosis with eachother for YEARS the last time it became relevant... also aside from rachel, there was also Emma and the Cuckoos, who were hosts... WHY IS NO ONE ASKING THEM and why is no one remembering Phoenix POST DPSAGA?

[personal profile] spacebetween 2012-04-11 09:10 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure why everyone is forgetting Rachel, next to Jean she is has had the most experience with it. As for Emma, Cuckoos or Kid Omega, probably because they were only a brief host. But then again this is a case of the writers being ignorant to past history of characters.

They also forgetting that the Phoenix considers Jean to be it's only real host. Endsong, Warsong and around the Xorn/Magneto it was really pushed on with the "Jean is me and I am Jean." and "Jean is the only house which I live in". Plus when Jean confronted the Phoenix in Emma she said "I am you. Don’t you remember? Now get out of that body."

As for why they ignore post Dark Phoenix, probably the same reason why everyone forgets everything Scarlet Witch pre-House of M and Decimation. Then again it doesn't help that the Phoenix has gone in a destructive phase right before heading to Earth.

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[personal profile] spacebetween 2012-04-11 07:38 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah Cap was Weapon I. Anything related to the Super Soldier Formula was Weapon I.
pyrotwilight: (Default)

[personal profile] pyrotwilight 2012-04-11 06:35 am (UTC)(link)
I'm personally hoping that we all find out everyone's panicking for nothing concerning the Phoenix but the reason it was heading to Earth was because something else was also heading to it that it wanted to stop.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-04-11 01:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Or we just happen to be en route to Gamma Ursae Majoris, where it REALLY wants to go.

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lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)

[personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn 2012-04-11 07:29 am (UTC)(link)
...and it's just occurred to me that I have no idea who the hell Hope is; I think I had been confusing her for Rachel.

To Wikipedia!

[personal profile] spacebetween 2012-04-11 07:45 am (UTC)(link)
Basically she is a Mary Sue with power to have any mutant power. If AvX is anything to go by soon to power boosted with the Phoenix Force. Just think of her as the Sentry with red hair and breasts.

So far they haven't actually said if she keeps the power or what radius does her copy ability work.
benuben: (Default)

[personal profile] benuben 2012-04-11 08:03 am (UTC)(link)
"Sigh". I truly am the only one, who didn't start hating Iron Man after Civil War. And I think Cap was totaly wrong in it. I would even go that far, saying Tony was right, if Marvel didn't try their absolute best to make him look like the biggest asshole person ever. Really, the only writer who in opinion, did Tony dealing with his actions during Civil War right, is Matt Fraction.
lascoden: Anarky (Default)

[personal profile] lascoden 2012-04-11 08:27 am (UTC)(link)
The Knauffs' run on Iron-Man, Director of SHIELD was far superior to anything Fraction has done, imho, and was actually what made me swing around to the Reg side.

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lascoden: Anarky (Default)

[personal profile] lascoden 2012-04-11 08:31 am (UTC)(link)
Here's an idea: Shoot Hope into space at the Phoenix. She's off Earth, so Cap is happy. She'll merge with the Phoenix, if that's what it wants, so Cyke is happy. Earth is safe, the PF has a host, everybody's happy. I know giving the monster what it wants is usually bad, but when that monster is actually nice now-and-again, and it can destroy existence by blinking, I'd be willing to make an exception.

[personal profile] hyperactivator 2012-04-11 09:50 am (UTC)(link)
The only thing that the Phoenix Force has been doing in this series is scrubing all life from planets and then making plants grow in its place. There is absolutely no reason to think that it won't do the same to earth.

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[personal profile] md84 2012-04-11 09:46 am (UTC)(link)
Is it better or worse that Marvel all but admitted that A vs. X is nothing but a contrived excuse to see the two teams duke it out?
lascoden: Anarky (Default)

[personal profile] lascoden 2012-04-11 11:47 am (UTC)(link)
I'm gonna say worse, because they could have done that easily without making everybody look like assholes.

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icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-04-11 06:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Grant Morrison's reveal that Project: Rebirth and the Super Soldier Serum was originally supposed to kill mutants, not Nazis, may be a factor. (Thanks, Grant! I say sarcastically.)

How did that even work, given it was the detonation of atom bomb from 1945 onwards which triggered the mass activation of the X-gene around the world? There were a few before then, but not many, and certainly not enough to engender a need for a mass extinction tool.
bruinsfan: (Default)

[personal profile] bruinsfan 2012-04-11 06:54 pm (UTC)(link)
With Morrison, who knows what kind of thought process went into the decision? Maybe in his world it was mustard gas or gripping radio serials that triggered the uptick in mutant births instead of atomic radiation.

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eaglet_auditore: A happy Jaime is a good Jaime (here we go again)

[personal profile] eaglet_auditore 2012-04-12 03:45 am (UTC)(link)
My only thoughts here are oh no, please don't let it be a reboot. Oh please no.
What will happen to kid!Loki?
That is all.
alexanderlucard: (Default)

[personal profile] alexanderlucard 2012-04-12 12:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Cap hasn't done anything for Mutants? REALLY? Right off the top of my head he's...

1) helping reform Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch into heroes
2) voucing for the Beast to join the Avengers when anti-mutant hysteria was at its prime in the MU?
3) came out against Mutant Registration (ala SHR in Civil War) in the late 70s/early 80s (It's all a blur)
4) helped revive Jean Grey to life so that you could do horrible things to her over and over again?

So on and so forth. Jesus, I get that Cyclops has been purposely made to be the biggest dick out of the Marvel super heroes since 1985 or so (technically earlier if you want to count his courship with Madelyine Pryor), but holy hell, I'm just waiting for him to put on Magneto's helmet and cackle maniacally at this point. Maybe hook up with the Doctor Doom Iron Man from Exiles.

Heh heh

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Re: Heh heh

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Re: Heh heh

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