starwolf_oakley: (Default)
[personal profile] starwolf_oakley posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Two panels from AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #1. And some rambling afterwards.

Where do I begin?

Cyclops is looking through rose-colored glasses (zing!) to think the Phoenix Force coming to Earth might be a good thing. Phoenix will fix things for mutants exactly how? There will be mutant births? And (as I've said before) those mutants won't get their powers until they are teenagers (minus any time travel tomfoolery). Unless they just "activate" like the Five Lights, which STILL doesn't make sense, even by X-Men standards.

It would be nice if Cyclops said "It has to be Hope's decision." Except Cyclops doesn't want it to be Hope's decision.

Captain America can't be wrong. That was the point behind Civil War. And why things fell apart during Secret Invasion, which led to Dark Reign. Yes, it can be annoying, and is why Iron Man was turned into a fascist. But that's how it is. Captain America can't be wrong.

One point that Cyclops *might* have is Cap being too far away from everything. Grant Morrison's reveal that Project: Rebirth and the Super Soldier Serum was originally supposed to kill mutants, not Nazis, may be a factor. (Thanks, Grant! I say sarcastically.)

So, basically, Captain America can't be wrong and Cyclops is an idiot with some minor points. Well, that resolves A VS. X for me!
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Date: 2012-04-10 09:42 pm (UTC)
brooms: (north wind)
From: [personal profile] brooms
franklin' galactus will eat them all and reboot the universe, gotta have faith

Date: 2012-04-10 09:49 pm (UTC)
freezer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] freezer
Oh, Cap's been wrong plenty (see: his surrender at the end of Civil War). The problem is that the writers invariably make everybody else even more wrong to compensate.

For example here: Cap expects Scott and the rest of the X-Men to fall in line and be good little soldiers, despite having inexplicably little real intel as to what the Phoenix actually is.

Scott, of course, rather than simply saying this goes into "OH YEAH? WHERE WERE YOU WHEN..?" mode.

So yeah... This is looking more and more like "Civil War with Mutants".

Date: 2012-04-10 09:53 pm (UTC)
lascoden: Anarky (Default)
From: [personal profile] lascoden
My thinking: Hope has/is a fragment of the Phoenix, which gives her the ability to activate new mutant "Lights." If given access to the full PF, this would be amplified to levels that could restore the mutants. Or, she could just use the reality warping aspect of the PF to give mutants their powers back.

While they don't show it here, Hope has repeatedly said that this is what she wants. She said so in AvX #0. And Cap doesn't care about what she wants, either. He flat out said he wasn't asking when he came for Hope.

Also, hadn't someone posted some of AvX #1? Did it get deleted?

Date: 2012-04-10 09:59 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
Note, the Phoenix has actually done a ton of really nice shit for everyone. Saved the universe, fought Galactus, helped out Rachel Summers during Excalibur. But does anyone remember that? No.

All they remember is the sun eating.

Date: 2012-04-10 10:13 pm (UTC)
protogarrett: (Default)
From: [personal profile] protogarrett
This. Also, why did no one freak out when Rachel was holding the Phoenix Force? Did they forget they were doing just fine for YEARS? Or help her when her whole family was murderd?

Date: 2012-04-10 10:15 pm (UTC)
brooms: (Default)
From: [personal profile] brooms
yus, i think the op deleted the post because he was going over the number of pages permitted by the rules.

Date: 2012-04-10 10:18 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
... which the op didn't need to do. They could have edited one page out.

Date: 2012-04-10 10:25 pm (UTC)
trobadora: (Default)
From: [personal profile] trobadora
Oh, so that's where it went! I thought I'd hallucinated it or something. *g*

Date: 2012-04-10 10:31 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (AwfulFun)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
That's really my big issue with this event. The Phoenix has been on earth before for extended periods of time and nobody cared. It was a powerful force for good. And now everyone's freaking out because it's coming back OH NOES!

The whole thing just rings really hollow. It feels like they did that whole planet eating thing it did in the preview just to beef up the Phoenix's "evil" resume so that they'd have a reason to freak out. The whole thing seems really forced. (No pun intended.)

Date: 2012-04-10 11:06 pm (UTC)
darkblade: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darkblade
To be fair eating a sun is kind of a big deal.

Date: 2012-04-10 11:30 pm (UTC)
lencannon: shy guy (Default)
From: [personal profile] lencannon
Man, the Phoenix ISN'T always evil. Jean was fine* until the Hellfire Club messed with her. Rachel was fine, period. Jean was fine with the Phoenix the SECOND time she had it. That dude using the Phoenix sword seemed fine.

And Jean is still the White Phoenix Of the Crown so surely the force can be reasoned with.

of course it destroyed that planet in AvX 1 so who fucking knows I guess.

I'm with Cyclops although he needs to take a vacation.

Date: 2012-04-10 11:35 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] hyperactivator
My personal belief is that this is the Phoenix Force from the Cancerverse. The reason it's killing everything in it's path? Thanos is the current host.

Our universes Pheonix Force is already on earth and going to fight the Cancer/Thanos Phoenix.

But that is most likely to awesome so it won't happen.

Date: 2012-04-10 11:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
To be fair, the Phoenix force is literally godlike. If it wants more mutants it can probably create them out of jelly beans if it feels like it.

Date: 2012-04-10 11:42 pm (UTC)
stolisomancer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stolisomancer
You know how there's that running gag in Wolverine and the X-Men where nobody pays any attention to Husk? I feel like the same gag's in AvX, but it's applied to Rachel Summers instead.

"We don't know what it's going to do when it gets here."
"I used it to bring people back to life and save the world a bunch."
"So we want to take Hope into protective custody."
"It's powerful, and can make you crazy, but if you keep a positive outlook it's not bad."
"Where were you the last few times mutants needed you?"
"I'd make sure you know exactly where Mastermind is at all times, though. Just FYI."
"Scott, don't be a dick."
"Guys, I'm right here."
"Up yours, Steve."

Date: 2012-04-10 11:49 pm (UTC)
amaniwolf: (Bugs)
From: [personal profile] amaniwolf
This seems way off, first Scott went ape, he was hammering Hope to the point of kicking her when she was on the ground, that's not's just abuse. Then Cap came because the governement knows about the Phoenix, not just the heroes, and they wanted to put Hope in a place where they figure the Phoenix Force couldn't bond with her and start a Jean Grey mess all over again. Admittedly, it's kind of naive to think anyone can stop a primal forces of the universe, or make it do what they want, ....seriously, it's silly. But then you have Scott committing everyone to a war against the Avengers and the government they won't be able to win. How is this remotely smart? This first issue just had me shaking my head.

Date: 2012-04-10 11:51 pm (UTC)
brooms: (charmed)
From: [personal profile] brooms
but rachel seems to have forgotten she was a host as well. she shared a few pages with hope in legacy and it just never came up, the two didn't even talk.

Date: 2012-04-10 11:55 pm (UTC)
crabby_lioness: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crabby_lioness
Place your bets, who think this whole "event" is a scam to reboot the entire MU? The line starts behind me.

Date: 2012-04-11 12:17 am (UTC)
stolisomancer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stolisomancer
The fastest way to get Joe Quesada to not do something is to convince him that Dan Didio thinks it's a good idea. I don't see a reboot happening.

Date: 2012-04-11 01:15 am (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
I'll take that bet. Marvel doesn't have the balls for a hard reboot.

Date: 2012-04-11 02:19 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
Dealing with godlike forces is a pretty huge gamble. The Fantastic Four manage it on a fairly regular basis (though it helps that the one they deal with most often used to be a mortal humanoid and can be reasoned with despite his hunger pangs). Of course, the Four also never actually INVITE any of these beings to Earth. And let's face it, Cyclops is no Reed Richards.

Date: 2012-04-11 02:22 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
She probably just doesn't want to think about it. Didn't the Shi'ar Empire send assassins after her that killed a bunch of people close to her because she was a former host? The Phoenix Force may have given her awesome world-saving power, but it's also brought a lot of grief in her life.

Date: 2012-04-11 02:43 am (UTC)
silverzeo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverzeo
"Grant Morrison's reveal that Project: Rebirth and the Super Soldier Serum was originally supposed to kill mutants, not Nazis, may be a factor. :

Really? ... seems better than the whole "Deadpool project" in the Wolverine movie... though making an unkillable super mutant to kill other mutants is pretty stupid on itself...

Around this time, I was kinda wondering if they're going to make like a "Rock Lee" character into the X-Men mythos, where a character is naturally super strong and fast but WITHOUT an X-Gene, basically a human boderlining between homo-sapiens and homo-superior (I hate that name, nothing eases tension between species when one is called "superior") WITHOUT the use of radiation, magic, or alien dna/experiments. Someone is caught between the middle of human and mutant conflicts.... some other than the Creed "love son" and Ink...

Date: 2012-04-11 04:12 am (UTC)
valtyr: (carol laughing)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
...but you eat ONE SUN...
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