sherkahn: (Comic Book Guy)
sherkahn ([personal profile] sherkahn) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2012-04-13 03:25 pm

New Avengers #26 wordless preview has the preview of #26, as revelations reveal how long ago the seeds of precaution have been prepared for the coming of the Phoenix as AvX continues.

I've been trying to find a decent "cut tag" phrase to get you to click and look on.

"They've been waiting."
"They have a plan."
But they sound too cheesy. Keep it simple

By Roth!!!, you have Da Vinci from S.H.I.E.L.D. involved.... and the are developing a contingency plan for the Phoenix?!

How long HAVE they known?
Is K'un L'un's extradimensional existence a way to hide the city from the Phoenix?
You had a plan for Galactus and the Celestial Child... what's the plan for the Phoenix?
Was the Iron Fist program designed to create an ideal host?
bewareofgeek: (Default)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2012-04-13 10:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Will Bendis screw up the Iron Fist mythology as much as he did Dr. Strange?

Signs point to yes.
bruinsfan: (Default)

[personal profile] bruinsfan 2012-04-14 01:31 am (UTC)(link)
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I don't think he's actually screwed up Dr. Strange in terms of plot and overall story arc. Sure, his dialogue can be terrible if the characters aren't supposed to be street vigilantes in Hell's Kitchen, and there was a good stretch of New Avengers in which Strange couldn't successfully manage a card trick. But Jericho Drumm's swan song was actually a pretty good story, and we're left with a leaner, more scholarly Dr. Strange in Defenders who has to be more creative/hardworking and call on friends rather than using the Eye of Agamotto to know exactly what to do and then solving every problem with a snap of his fingers. I think some exciting new potential has opened up for the character.
halloweenjack: (Default)

[personal profile] halloweenjack 2012-04-14 03:00 am (UTC)(link)
That's a very good description, and a good way of pinpointing problems that I've had with Strange in the past; too often, he's been written as a flying blaster/energy manipulator who spouted alliterative aphorisms and occasionally pressed the I Win button.
bewareofgeek: (Default)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2012-04-14 12:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I'll give you the same challenge I've given others:

Name 3 stories, pre-Bendis, where Strange won without working for it. Bonus points if it's in his own title.

I'll agree with you about the flying blaster bit, but that's a problem with the writer, not the character, IMO.
bruinsfan: (Default)

[personal profile] bruinsfan 2012-04-15 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
His own title was usually written to make things challenging even with lesser opposition, but I recall Strange defeating Nightmare pretty handily in Dr. Strange #13, ditto by merely opening the Eye of Agamotto at the beginning of Dr. Strange #50, and easily making short work of Mordo's lieutenants in Dr. Strange #56 by basically letting his house eat them.

Also sticking out in my memory are (1) the old issue of Defenders where as the Red Rajah Strange took out Solarr, the Rhino, and the male half of his own team as if they were toddlers, (2) an issue of Namor where the titular character, Iron Fist, and possibly Misty Night and Colleen Wing were fleeing from some ├╝ber-powerful sentient plant monsters and Strange disintegrated them effortlessly, and (3) Fantastic Four #243, in which Strange waved his hands and knocked Galactus into a coma with a single spell.
bewareofgeek: (Default)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2012-04-15 10:54 am (UTC)(link)
Congratulations. You are actually the first person to ever actually answer the challenge. Unfortunately, I don't actually own most of those stories, so I can't give you a proper rebuttal.

But for the one I do own:

Mordo's minions were taken out pretty easily, true, but it wasn't a matter of "Strange waves his hand and they lose". And that's what he's often accused of. Most of the examples you give don't seem to fall under that label as well, except maybe for the FF take.

And if the story is the one I'm thinking of, it wasn't as simple as that. Strange basically gave the big G a Penance stare, and that's why Galactus went comatose. It wasn't "By the Lights of Great Paloma, put this being into a coma".

Still, you have some good examples there. But I think you'll agree, these are the exception, not the rule. And Strange has been around for 50 years...
bruinsfan: (Default)

[personal profile] bruinsfan 2012-04-15 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)
And if the story is the one I'm thinking of, it wasn't as simple as that. Strange basically gave the big G a Penance stare, and that's why Galactus went comatose. It wasn't "By the Lights of Great Paloma, put this being into a coma".

And the fact that Strange didn't need an incantation and just knew exactlly how to make Galactus fall down and curl up with a gesture invalidates the example how?

In a lot of cases, stories after the mid-80s or so didn't have Dr. Strange live up to his potential, but that meant a lot of contrived situations to preserve drama, or Bendis-like nerfings where he suddenly couldn't do much if he was in the company of allies, since you can't have a huge extradimensional invasion every month. Someone who can fight Dormammu or Mephisto one-on-one really shouldn't have to worry when facing down minor occultists or Spider-Man villains, y'know? I think all but a few writers these days have problems coming up with interesting stories about a character who can basically do anything he can imagine - it's a problem that has also plagued the Dr. Fate and Spectre characters over at DC.

The current situation brings Strange back down to a point where he's still one of the most powerful Marvel heroes, but no longer virtually omnipotent and omniscient. And so far IMHO Matt Fraction has been getting the character notes exactly right while preserving a sense of mystery and wonder. I much prefer that to having Strange make cameo appearances in crowd scenes during each summer's big crossover mess because no one can think of anything else to do with him.
bewareofgeek: (Default)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2012-04-14 12:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I disagree. He pretty much transformed a rich mythology based on DECADES of stories into a poorly written mess.

Tying Strange's power level to his title as Sorcerer Supreme was one thing, and a bit ridiculous. But making the Eye part of it, when he had it for _decades_ before becoming S.S.?

(Leaving aside the fact that there are TWO amulets and the Orb as well)

Turning Agamotto evil and disbanding the Vishanti just to "depower" Stephen?

And let's not even get into the whole "The Eye cannot be simply taken" bit, since that's _precisely_ how Drumm got it. Strange didn't give it to him, it traveled to him via the power of Agamotto. The same being who later tried to take it.

And Bendis WROTE that story.

A while back, I postulated that Bendis based his ideas on Marvel Magic on D&D. Strange is a low-level magic-user, who needs artifacts to get anything done.

That's not the Strange I grew up reading. Never was. Even in his VERY FIRST APPEARANCE, when he had neither the Eye nor the title, he was more competent than Bendis' take.

As for Densders... meh.
bruinsfan: (Default)

[personal profile] bruinsfan 2012-04-15 01:46 am (UTC)(link)
Tying Strange's power level to his title as Sorcerer Supreme was one thing, and a bit ridiculous. But making the Eye part of it, when he had it for _decades_ before becoming S.S.?

For the first part it was sort of already established, as Strange was given the Ancient One's power in addition to his own upon the latter's death. Presumably when he stepped down he lost that benefit, and it was given to Jericho Drumm upon being chosen by the Eye (which would explain how he went from charming snakes and fire-walking to fighting dimension lords overnight). The Ancient One gave Strange the Eye after his first victory over Dormammu and went into semi-retirement after that, so Strange was essentially acting as Sorcerer Supreme for years (ten in real time, maybe two or three in comics time?) even though he didn't technically have the title yet.

I'm not thrilled by the cosmic being representing truth and knowledge making an unexplained heel turn, but must concede that when he pointed out in-story that the doings of beings like the Vishanti are far beyond human comprehension, he probably had a point. And that story demonstrated that the Eye's power and functioning was now separate from Agamotto himself, hence his attempts to get it back and recover some of his former glory after being diminished.
bewareofgeek: (Default)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2012-04-15 12:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Sort of, but not really. I can think of three times (Strange Tales vs, the Order, and the Quinn/Ellis era) that Strange either lost the eye, or stopped using it. And in all three cases, he didn't lose THAT much power.

As for Jericho... he never even USED the Eye in his mini, even when it would have made sense to do so. It was that silly-looking staff with the shrunken heads. And bad writing, but I've ranted about that elsewhere.
starwolf_oakley: (Default)

[personal profile] starwolf_oakley 2012-04-14 01:36 am (UTC)(link)
Given Bendis' man-crush on Luke Cage, he probably knows a lot about Iron Fish's background just by proxy (or whatever). Bendis might just get Iron Fist mythology right. *Might*
pyrotwilight: (Default)

[personal profile] pyrotwilight 2012-04-14 02:56 am (UTC)(link)
Iron Fish. With a tail like a thing of iron.
starwolf_oakley: (Default)

[personal profile] starwolf_oakley 2012-04-15 04:41 am (UTC)(link)
Iron Fish. How did I miss that? *sigh*
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)

[personal profile] thanekos 2012-04-15 01:35 pm (UTC)(link)
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-04-13 10:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I wonder how much of Davis' Excalibur run will be recalled, since that established that the Phoenix was first active on Earth many centuries ago, when a sorcerer of an alternate Earth (A contemporary of Merlyn) travelled to 616 to communicate with the Phoenix Force, becoming it's host for a while.
razsolo: (Default)

[personal profile] razsolo 2012-04-13 11:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I would be very surprised if Bendis has the slightest clue about any of that stuff, it would take a couple of minutes of online research after all and might get in the way of his ideas.... :p

[personal profile] silicondream 2012-04-14 01:08 am (UTC)(link)
Signs point to None!...but it would be pretty awesome to have a Feron cameo here.

"Dammit, do I have to grow my hair out and dye it red and get implants? What does a boy magician have to do to get some Phoenix action here!?"
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-04-14 01:21 am (UTC)(link)
Well, if you wait a thousand years or so, we do have a "He-onix"

Giraud, the 9th Phoenix host since Jean Grey
halloweenjack: (Default)

[personal profile] halloweenjack 2012-04-14 03:01 am (UTC)(link)
Combining the shiny shoulderpads and the codpiece--that's different.
cypherfdp: (Default)

[personal profile] cypherfdp 2012-04-15 05:15 am (UTC)(link)
There was a Phoenix Franklin in an alternate future Ultimate X-Men/FF crossover if I remember correctly.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-04-15 11:39 am (UTC)(link)
Given Franklin's pre-existing power levels, that seems a little... redundant.
lascoden: Anarky (Default)

[personal profile] lascoden 2012-04-16 06:26 am (UTC)(link)
For some reason, I don't think there is going to be an Ultimate Franklin Richards anymore...
shadowpsykie: (Bitch Please)

[personal profile] shadowpsykie 2012-04-13 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
hmmm i don't know how i feel about "Iron Fist" becoming an ideal host for the Phoenix... a part of me has always felt that the Phoenix has always been connected to a female, and as such represents female power... I know it can have other hosts, and has had male hosts. but i really LOVED what Morison and most of those that came after did with Jean

"Jean is only the house where I live"
"I am always Jean Grey and always the Phoenix"
"I am You, don't you remember?"

other people might be capable of hosting the phoenix, but to me, Jean Grey is always the Phoenix, and the Phoenix is always Jean Grey...

god this even just makes me wish that Jean comes back.... if they DON'T bring her back in the end of this.... i will be PISSED
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)

[personal profile] thatnickguy 2012-04-14 12:19 am (UTC)(link)
In all honesty, I'm surprised she's had the fortitude to stay dead for this long. That's a talent in comics.

[personal profile] arilou_skiff 2012-04-14 12:23 am (UTC)(link)
I, OTOH, hate the Fiery Parrot with a burning passion. I prefer my cosmic entities to be more... Kirbytastic I guess.
auggie18: (Default)

[personal profile] auggie18 2012-04-14 03:08 am (UTC)(link)
You aren't alone.

I mean, personally, I freaking LOVE the Phoenix. But it gets a lot of hate online. Which, I guess to each his or her own, so you aren't alone.

Personally, I like the idea of cosmic entities being like the Phoenix a lot more than the Kirbytastic ones. (I know, blasphemy, remove my nerd license, etc.) There's just something about raw cosmic power that appeals to me.
halloweenjack: (Default)

[personal profile] halloweenjack 2012-04-14 03:09 am (UTC)(link)
If your idea is that they've been planning for the Phoenix all along, then I think you have to explain how the retcon accounts for Phoenix having been a public superhero for at least some months (including a very public fight with Firelord, over New York City, no less) without their intervening, complicated by the fact that during part of that time Jean Grey was roommates with Misty Knight, girlfriend of Danny Rand, and Jean and Danny met at least once. Well, you don't have to explain, but Bendis does.

[personal profile] md84 2012-04-14 02:44 pm (UTC)(link)
To think, all of these storylines about the Phoenix only exist because someone wanted to bring Jean Grey back from the dead while absolving her of mass-murder. Of course, that means that the Phoenix is still guilty of killing billions.

At least Galactus has the excuse of being vital to the universe's well-being.

[personal profile] wonderwomanhero 2012-04-14 04:05 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess my main question is...will we ever see Jean Grey again? Will she ever come back to back to normal and resume being a member of the X-Men?

[personal profile] spacebetween 2012-04-14 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
It wouldn't surprise me if she returns in AvX. They are bring Captain Marvel back for the Secret Avengers side of things, how long he sticks around in the land of living is a different story. I'm guessing he go back to the grave again after this is done.

It could be that a fragment of Jean/Phoenix is inside of Hope some how with the Phoenix coming to resurrect her and become complete. An incomplete Phoenix could explain why it has gone in a destructive phase all of a sudden.
espanolbot: (Default)

[personal profile] espanolbot 2012-04-14 11:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know, personally I think that they should leave any non-Richards members of the SHIELD comic alone until the series concludes, that way it doesn't lead to frustrating contradictions.