starwolf_oakley: (Default)
starwolf_oakley ([personal profile] starwolf_oakley) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2012-04-18 09:52 pm

Cyclops is a jerk.

A VS. X makes it clear Cyclops is acting like a total jerk. And I wish it was Out Of Character for him, that some desperate hope Jean will come back is overriding his better judgement. Except it isn't. Cyclops being a jerk is standing operating procedure pretty much since DECIMATION started, if not before.

From the last issue of CHILDREN'S CRUSADE:

Good gravy, Scott.

Two pages from X-MEN: SCHISM #4:

Cyclops has two good points: Logan blows off every class he is assigned, and he was in a bar when the Hellfire Club attacked the Mutant History Museum (thus Idie killed the Club soldiers). Those are Scott's only points.

One panel from X-MEN: SCHISM #5:

Examples like when he ran out on Madelyn Pryor and his son also come to mind, but he realized at that very instant what an ass he was. He just didn't do anything to change it.
nefrekeptah: (Default)

[personal profile] nefrekeptah 2012-04-19 02:51 am (UTC)(link)
Well, look at it this way.

At least he's not being written out of established character to make a crossover work.
jcbaggee: Jesus (Default)

[personal profile] jcbaggee 2012-04-19 03:04 am (UTC)(link)
It's interesting in that I see it as an evolution of Scott. He was always the first to believe in Xavier's dream of mutants and humans living in peace, but now he sees the extinction of mutantkind as a threat to that. In his eyes, he's upholding Xavier's dream by struggling to keep them alive through any means necessary.
brooms: (shirley)

[personal profile] brooms 2012-04-19 03:24 am (UTC)(link)
In his eyes, he's upholding Xavier's dream

i doubt it.

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lencannon: shy guy (Default)

[personal profile] lencannon 2012-04-19 03:24 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry, I'm afraid to say I'm still with Scott here. Dude has been the whipping boy of the Marvel U since the 70s. He's really found a great place for himself as a major marvel character. If he's a little abrasive, at least he isn't letting everyone walk all over him like Prof. X would.

Also, unlike Charles, all of his dick behavior is right there on the surface instead of hidden behind a bunch of creepy passive aggressive "kindness" and dark secrets.
righthondude: (Default)

[personal profile] righthondude 2012-04-19 05:14 am (UTC)(link)
Here, here!
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-04-19 07:17 am (UTC)(link)
Agreed, I don't always agree with Scott (Though in Schism I do) but there's a plausible, if not always admirable, logic to it.

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nyadnar17: (Default)

[personal profile] nyadnar17 2012-04-19 04:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Also going to have to voice my support for the pro-Scott side on this one. I have been a Cyclops fan since I first stumbled unpon my dad's old back issues from when Xavier was still team leader. I have enjoyed watching Cyclops finally come into his own.

8/10 I agree with his decisions and even when I don't I at least see where he is comming from. Also as someone who has always resented the fact that Marvel gives top billing to the Avengers and the FF despite the X-books being ther best selling tittles I am enjoying hearing him voice my grevences to Cap.

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[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-19 03:35 am (UTC)(link)
I can grok where the guy's going--like lencannon mentioned, the guy was a whipping boy for decades, but since Morrison/Whedon, the guy's basically manned up and had to literally lead the ENTIRE Mutant race, which is a completely different animal from simply leading a superhero team. If anything, his cardinal sin is probably that he's tries a wee too hard at times to be the alpha male--which is probably why his Extinction Team is filled with people who were/are gifted leaders, like Namor, Magneto, and Storm.

OT, but when it comes to the X-Men and Children's Crusade, the one that really bothered me was Wolverine. I know his deal lately has been that he's the killer of the team, and he doesn't want anyone else to have to get their hands dirty, but...DAMN, dude REALLY wanted to kill Billy and Wanda a bit too much.
brooms: (shirley)

[personal profile] brooms 2012-04-19 03:50 am (UTC)(link)
i don't like cyclops. and i can't make much sense of avx (or care to, i'm just not feeling it, not for me). but he has a lot of justified pent up anger going and i feel like mr right and virtuous captain america is, like, one of the worst possible picks to try and "reason" with him?

especially when the "reasoning" involves a helicarrier full of avengers ready to use force and invade the mutant's home island.

"where were you?"

"respecting you."

awful. just awful.
kirayoshi: Made of Rage (Default)

[personal profile] kirayoshi 2012-04-19 03:51 am (UTC)(link)
I'm still going with the theory that a portion of Apocalypse's psyche is still rattling around in Scott's head, influencing his actions. It's the only thing that makes sense anymore.

I also stand by my belief that by the end of AVX, Scott is going to wind up the loneliest man in the MU. Even Emma won't want him anymore!

[personal profile] the_eleven 2012-04-19 10:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, if you go back there is a definite change in how Cyclops is portrayed after the arc where he is possessed. It's even remarked on in the later issues by the other characters...and he never did really find his way back to being the Cyclops he used to be; he will now KILL YOU if that's where it is at, and the possession is the line where all that changed.
mommy: Arshtat; Suikoden V (Default)

[personal profile] mommy 2012-04-19 04:04 am (UTC)(link)
I am distracted by how in the first scan there seems to be an X-Men team requirement for all female teammates to show off their cleavage. How are Emma's and Storm's tops even staying up?
equinox216: (Default)

[personal profile] equinox216 2012-04-19 06:07 am (UTC)(link)
... It's cold out there?
benuben: (Default)


[personal profile] benuben 2012-04-19 04:39 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, how is he jerk at the first scan? He is right. She did destroy lives. It's not good reason to kill her, which he admited, but it's damn good reason to be pissed. Also, they are 6 other people right behind him.

And you forgot a lot of his other points, like that them losing their only home in the world that is openly armed against them would suck, sentinel not giving fuck if they are kids, the kids being there willingly (atleast he though so) ect. And when we are at it, what are Wolverine's arguments here? "They are kids, just like you and other kids Xavier forced to do exactly the same things and... They are kids!"

grazzt: (Default)

Re: What?

[personal profile] grazzt 2012-04-19 04:10 pm (UTC)(link)
The only problem is that it reeks of hypocrisy. For starters, how many people does Cyclops associate who have been just as bad in the past? There's Magneto, Emma Frost, Namor, etc. What would make Scarlet Witch any different than them, even if she didn't have a "possessed" out?

The second thing, wasn't he himself possessed by an evil force (Apocalypse) at one point? Shouldn't he be just the slightest bit more understanding?

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jetwolf: (Default)

[personal profile] jetwolf 2012-04-19 04:56 am (UTC)(link)
I am the absolute last person that would ever cheer Cyclops on, but I don't see the jerkiness in AvX - or, at least, no jerkiness that isn't warranted. Captain America basically showed up on sovereign land, demanded a young and powerful member of an endangered people, and brought a super-powered battalion with him to make sure he left with what he wanted. Steve came to fight, not to talk, and I don't think Scott can be blamed for seeing that and reacting accordingly.

If anything for me, Captain America's looking terrible in this. I'd love to see how Steve would react to someone bringing an army to American soil to demand a citizen. No matter the reason claimed, somehow I suspect his response wouldn't be to shrug and say "Sure, no problem."

[personal profile] md84 2012-04-19 05:21 am (UTC)(link)
This did happen a while back with Hulkling -- who technically speaking wasn't even an American citizen (he was born on a different planet as opposed to US soil and I doubt his Skrull nanny went through proper immigration channels). The Skrulls and Kree both wanted him and Cap said no. In this example the stakes didn't involve a planet killing monster, though the intergalactic politics involved were arguably worse.

[personal profile] md84 2012-04-19 05:15 am (UTC)(link)
In A vs. X, the issue isn't jerkiness so much as stupidity. And Cap and Cyclops were both being pretty out-of-character stupid, which is really the only way the crossover fight could happen in the first place. A clear case of Hanlon's Razor in action.
salinea: (Default)

[personal profile] salinea 2012-04-19 12:20 pm (UTC)(link)
In A vs. X, the issue isn't jerkiness so much as stupidity.
This. Cyke is a jerk at the best of time, which doesn't make him not!right, especially not in Schism - and he's not wrong to be angry at Wanda for Decimation either. The ooc-ness here however is the Idiot Ball everyone is juggling with.
suzene: (Default)

[personal profile] suzene 2012-04-19 05:19 am (UTC)(link)
Cyclops stopped being a hero to me c. Divided We Stand. Xavier "dies", so let's kick a bunch of traumatized kids out of the only home some of them have left, offer them no help with therapy, then go scoop them up again when Scott decides he needs fresh bodies for the most recent mutant rez.

Sorry, no excuse for that shit. If he winds up dead or disowned by the end of AvX, it'll be just deserts that were a long time coming.

[personal profile] md84 2012-04-19 05:27 am (UTC)(link)
I doubt Cyclops considers himself to be a hero at this point. He's pretty much given up on Xavier's ideals and is focused on the survival of mutants as a whole. And if that means putting kids through the meat-grinder (possibly literally given some of the threats the X-men face), then so be it.

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big_daddy_d: (Magneto)

[personal profile] big_daddy_d 2012-04-19 06:38 am (UTC)(link)
I get it. Scott is in a position where he carries tons of weight on his shoulders. This is what he knows. This is what he's been trained for. I get that sometimes you gotta be the guy to make the hard decisions. Decisions that will not be popular with everyone. Sometimes you gotta be an asshole when it comes to leading, especally because sometimes people do not respond to kindness. But there's a difference between that and being some type of religious/militant/immature fanatic asshole who can't even have a mature conversation with someone in the face of danger. Someone who actually WANTS to HELP! Someone who clearly stated they wanted to protect the same person he wants to protect and the first thing he does is blast him as well as turn his nose up. I remember where Magneto told Scott he's sounding a lot like him and something about it didn't sound like admiration or a compliment. Or hell, from Magneto, maybe it was, idk, either way, he's definitely more like Magneto back in his villain days. That is not a good thing.

Also another thing..on that Children's Crusade page...jesus man, at least have the courtesy to not say that shit in front of the woman's sons! The fuck is wrong with you?!

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eyz: (Default)

[personal profile] eyz 2012-04-19 08:20 am (UTC)(link)
*reads title*
...And that's why we love him! :)
benuben: (Default)

[personal profile] benuben 2012-04-20 06:59 am (UTC)(link)
It is definetly why I love him!

[personal profile] jlbarnett 2012-04-19 11:29 am (UTC)(link)
doesn't Wiccan have very vague pretty easy to use, potentially deadly powers? Because seriously Scott could very easily be saying "Please explode my head" right there.
bruinsfan: (Default)

[personal profile] bruinsfan 2012-04-19 06:31 pm (UTC)(link)
True enough, but I'd think the same would apply only moreso to standing around and making big speeches about how he's shown up to bring Wanda to justice for crimes against a bunch of former mutants who never elected him to speak for them in the first place. This is someone who used to be his enemy, went through a psychotic break that she's only recently sort-of recovered from, and even without [insert external influence du jour here] amping her up is poweful enough to take down Ultron or blow the peak off Wundagore Mountain all by her lonesome.
angelophile: (Hancock Meh)

[personal profile] angelophile 2012-04-20 12:13 am (UTC)(link)
The thing is about Cyclops of old is that, yep, a jerk and/or idiot in his private life, but that was always balanced by his competence as a team leader. And we saw that often enough. Since Fraction took over the X-men there's beena real surge in stories where we're TOLD Cyclops is an excellent leader, but we're not shown it. We keep hearing other characters proclaim what a genius leader he is, but that basically leaves a bunch of characters to carry the idiot ball, because everything we see just makes us believe he's a heartless, blundering idiot.

Even when other characters have called him out, it's for moral judgements, not tactical ones. So we're left with supposed genius tactical plans that the writers obviously think are clever, but are, in fact, pants. So the only way writers can have Cyclops seem like some kind of genius is make the villains even more ridiculous.

Morrison at least understood the "good leader, not necessarily a good person thing" and played accordingly. Fraction seemed to love him and made him even more hateful and ridiculous, while having other characters praise him, and that just amplifies the jerkiness. Not only is the character being obnoxious, the writers are too.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-04-20 01:19 am (UTC)(link)
Dunno about Fraction, but there have been moments where he's displayed superb tactical skills, even down to the memorable exchange "Scott, please tell me you have a plan B" "Of course I don't, that would imply I only have 26 plans"

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