sherkahn: (Headmaster Logan)
[personal profile] sherkahn posting in [community profile] scans_daily
ComicBookResources has the preview of X-Men Legacy #266, as the fight comes to the Jean Grey School of Higher Learning.

Red Wing vs. Lockheed!

Don't do it, guys!

and yeah, the Avengers should've brought more muscles.

Date: 2012-05-04 05:12 pm (UTC)
brooms: (iorek)
From: [personal profile] brooms
Red Wing vs. Lockheed!


did the guy in the white hood really just say "you people"?

was that frenzy or kitty? i'm going with frenzy. kick their ass, gurl.

Date: 2012-05-04 05:17 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Considering some of the awkward panels of Kitty during the late Claremont era, she's probably the LAST person that needs to be going there.

Date: 2012-05-04 05:26 pm (UTC)
brooms: (north wind)
From: [personal profile] brooms
lol do you mean the n-word panels?


Date: 2012-05-04 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
You know, the thing is, I can see what Kitty's trying to say--I'm just so shocked that they got away with using it that any point kinda gets lost in the WTFery.

Date: 2012-05-04 05:36 pm (UTC)
crabby_lioness: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crabby_lioness
What's so shocking about it? I see far worse words used every day without anyone flinching. At the time it wasn't considered the monumentally evil word it is today.

I still can't get over a world that considers n***** worse than m*****f*****.

Date: 2012-05-04 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Yeah, but not in an X-Men comic that I would imagine was still under the Comics Code at the time.

Date: 2012-05-04 06:02 pm (UTC)
brooms: (north wind)
From: [personal profile] brooms
I still can't get over a world that considers n***** worse than m*****f*****.

i... don't see how they're comparable, at all. especially considering the very recent history of violent oppression associated with the former in the US. i also don't see how a word being more acceptable in the past somehow proves that it's innocuous. loads of racist bullshit was acceptable in the past.

buuuut i'm not american or informed enough to participate in srs topics like, so i'm just gonna go sit over that, toodle pip, etc.

Date: 2012-05-04 08:34 pm (UTC)
arysteia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] arysteia
Nope, I think you're absolutely right. Everyone's entitled to their opinion when ranking basic swear-words, and often the relative offence level varies from place to place, but ethnic slurs and words that codify oppression are pretty clearly in another basket.

Date: 2012-05-04 10:14 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] silicondream
Ayup. "Motherfucker" is a general-purpose cussword. "Nigger" is an ethnic slur associated with a form of racism that's massively relevant to our past and current society. Waythehelldifferent.

That said, I'm fine with Kitty using that language. It's shocking, but it's supposed to be. Mutants are a minority that half of 616 Earth wants to exterminate, after all; she can reasonably make the point that there's more than one type of dangerous prejudice in the world.

Date: 2012-05-04 11:08 pm (UTC)
brooms: (iorek)
From: [personal profile] brooms
i'm not the most articulate person, so let me apologize in advance if this doesn't make much sense.

while i really dig the x-men, i'm not comfortable when they openly compare the mutants' plight to examples of rl prejudice/oppression in the comics, tbh. i'm not wild on borrowing words like chink or nigger or faggot to make your fantasy prejudice more legit.

especially bc, when it comes down to it, it's really not the same?

poc, muslims, jewish people, lgbt folks - they are just people. they can't go through walls and steal your money, or use their mindcontrol to seduce nubile white women, or w/e. they are not inherently capable of any more or less than a cisgendered heterosexual male WASP.

Date: 2012-05-05 02:18 am (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
I see your point, but I feel like it almost comes down to whether they should feel free to commit to their fiction or not. The problems with the analogy are huge, as you point out here, but it's pretty central to the comic. I don't think they're so much using it to make the fantasy prejudice more legit as take it as a real premise in that world. It seems like it really centers on the idea of whether it's a fit subject for entertainment purposes at all.

Date: 2012-05-05 04:12 am (UTC)
brooms: (iorek)
From: [personal profile] brooms
I don't think they're so much using it to make the fantasy prejudice more legit as take it as a real premise in that world.

i think it's a personal problem. like, with me. because i don't really have a hard time buying it as a real premise in that world. i'm the most gullible reader a sci-fi/fantasy writer could hope for, i'm an olympic champion in suspension of disbelief! i roll with all kinds of bullshit - ALL KINDS! ... as long as it's in a clear fantasy world. i know 616 is supposed to mirror our own, but there's too many fantastical elements in there for it to really feel like it.

so yes! i not only buy, but am invested in the plights of these mostly white, young, super model looking, slow aging, supremely powerful persecuted ppl.

but when they openly bring serious shit from my world to theirs, naming real names (and few things are realer to me than ethnic slurs), making the comparisons for me instead of just inviting them, it throws me out of it. the dream collapses. suddenly, all i can see is the many ways in which this doesn't work at all and i'm like, why u do this, i'm not here for that.

Date: 2012-05-06 11:17 am (UTC)
greenmask: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greenmask
As an adult, I'm in the same boat as you and I cringe when it appears that the x-books are using RL-racism to up the stakes for their fictional discrimination. But then again, when I was little nothing made me think about how RL-racism was bad so much as understanding the pain of these super-fun fictional people who experienced fake (i.e. non-threatening) discrimination which was then compared to RL-racism.

I think it works in a book ór show for kids, or possibly a book or show for kids who don't actually experience inescapable prejudice, because it makes things understandable without being a too-heavy downer, but.. X-Men isn't really a kids book (anymore?) like the cartoon was a kids' cartoon. As a writer, it's probably easy to forget that there's a difference.

Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-04 11:17 pm (UTC)
aeka: (Power Girl [modcon]:)
From: [personal profile] aeka
The "n" word is a derogatory term that was originally used by white plantation owners as a way of abusing African slaves that were brought to America during the 19th Century. It is also a term that comes with a long history of dehumanisation, oppression and violent crimes committed against African Americans throughout the course of their history. Please do not suggest that a vulgar term like "mother fucker" can be worse or even be equated to one that has its roots in racism in American society.
Edited Date: 2012-05-04 11:19 pm (UTC)

Re: Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-04 11:54 pm (UTC)
avantre: (Default)
From: [personal profile] avantre
I must point out that your n word only has such explosive meaning in your country and perhaps other limited territories. The word isn't used in my country (except by people who dress in jumpsuits and listen to way too much rap) and of the two the mf word would be considered the far more insulting. That is not to take away the terrible history your n word has, but instead to point out that a world exists outside of your country where other words are indeed considered worse.

Re: Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-05 12:07 am (UTC)
aeka: (Power Girl [modcon]:)
From: [personal profile] aeka
Regardless of how much weight a disrespectful word like "mother fucker" has in other countries, it is still not a word that can be equated with one that comes with a history of racism and violent oppression against African Americans. There's simply no equivalence there.

Re: Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-05 12:58 am (UTC)
salinea: Balalaika is rendered speechless ("...")
From: [personal profile] salinea
I'm sorry, but what country is that?

Re: Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-05 05:07 am (UTC)
aeka: (Huntress [computer]:)
From: [personal profile] aeka
I can't speak for all other Latin American countries, but in Colombia (where my family is from) the word "negro" (where the more infamous "n" word is derived from) doesn't carry quite as much weight there as it does in the US. So I can sort of see where they're coming from, but at the same time I'm not sure if the two even equate since the Spanish word is used to describe the skin colour.

Re: Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-05 05:27 am (UTC)
halloweenjack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] halloweenjack
There's still a United Negro College Fund in the US.

Re: Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-05 10:52 am (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
Yeah, I don't think that's an actual equivalent, which is why I asked the person making this... surprising claim.

The closest equivalent in French doesn't quite carry the same connotation either.

Re: Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-05 04:46 am (UTC)
crabby_lioness: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crabby_lioness
I won't say any more about it, but you just broke my brain with the suggestion that the second term is not associated with a violent crime.

Re: Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-05 04:54 am (UTC)
aeka: (Power Girl [wtf]:)
From: [personal profile] aeka
They way I know it, "mother fucker" does not come with a history of violent oppression of a marginalised group the way the other word does.

Mod Note

Date: 2012-05-06 11:59 am (UTC)
greenmask: (grr)
From: [personal profile] greenmask
This comment isn't precisely mod business, but! I do have an interest in seeing m*****f***** run out of town, and of course we do have a 'shit not on what those oppressed have fought for' policy which the mod team is obliged/pleased to enforce. And so:

I'm with you, definitely, on "the second term" being far more disgusting and flippantly offensive than it's generally given credit for - but going in with why isn't this [thing that's generally regarded as not so bad] worse than this [thing that's generally accepted as totally bad, after long years of work, pain and effort] is essentially sabotaging your own argument.. Hence your original mod note.

Everyone's going to hear it as "I don't think that this [generally accepted as bad] word is so bad after all"; if you want to push for the re-assessment of m*****f***** (and a unrelated thread isn't the beest place for that, but anyway) you'll probably catch far more flies with an argument that builds solidarity with other outlawed-because-disgusting words, such as n*****. You're entitled to your opinion that one is worse than the other, but opinions served straight don't tend to be the most convincing of debate arguments.

Date: 2012-05-06 03:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Oddly, an acquaintance of mine who AFAIK is not an X-man fan had nearly this exact exchange with another student at the community college I used to attend, but with 'Mutie' replaced with a RL slur.

Date: 2012-05-04 05:29 pm (UTC)
crabby_lioness: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crabby_lioness
Considering some of the brilliant panels with Kitty in the mid-Claremont era, she can to there any time she wants.


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