shadowpsykie: (ask the questions)
shadowpsykie ([personal profile] shadowpsykie) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2012-05-05 06:38 pm

The Trinity of Sin Revealed

Okay so, in the DC New 52 FCBD (Free Comic Book day for the uninitiated) Issue, it was revealed who the Trinity of Sin are.

One was Pandora, the other, as assumed, was the Phantom Stranger, and the third, probably comes to a surprise, ends up to be a person who appears to be The Question aka Vic/Charlie Sage.

(Sorry for the Quality, but i took it with my camera phone….)

What I found interesting was the reveal of the Phantom Stranger’s Identity.

As far as I remember, there have only ever been hints as to who he used to be. But in the FCBD issue, it seems like it is pretty much revealed who he was.

Hmmm Forgive me as HE would… interesting…

You’re greed has darkened the World forever… those are Silver Pieces that the Wizard (i am assuming) is playing with.

The Silver Pieces are what form his necklace, thing.

I think if it is not clear, it is pretty heavily implied that the Phantom Stranger is Judas Iscariot, the man who in Judeo-Christian teachings betrayed Jesus for Thirty Pieces of Silver. The fact that they say his greed “Darkened the world” and the items used to bind him are pieces of silver. As well as the “Forgive me as HE would Line” (since Jesus Preached Forgiveness). Judas was actually one of the implied identities for the Phantom Stranger, and i think this has been one of the biggest “hints” we have ever been given as to his identity. Interesting :D

Now the other Reveal, the Third member of the Trinity of Sin is revealed as I said above, to be the Question.

The Anti-Establishment, the No Face, and the Question Mark Puff of Smoke seem to indicate that this is the newest incarnation of the Question. Im interested to see how this plays out… It’s a different take, and it can be interesting….

The Third member of the Trinity is Pandora, and she is revealed to be…

Yeah as most people suspected, she is THE Pandora. As in Pandora’s Box.

What i find interesting is that the mythical Pandora is a Pre-Judeo-Christian Character, Judas Iscariot is a Judeo-Christian Figure. So, since these two sinners have been pulled from percievably different ages, its possible that the Question pulled her was pulled from a more modern era. Meaning that the Likely hood that he is still Victor Sage seems all the more likely. The Rock of Eternity stands outside of time and space so it is conceivable that these Gods, Ancients, or Wizards have been able to pull the three “greatest” sinners from all of time to the Rock from their respective time Periods. So there You have it. Pandora, Judas Iscariot, and Victor Sage, are the Trinity of Sin. Im actually very interested to see where they will go with this… Color me intrigued DC.

hawkmoondirge: (Default)

[personal profile] hawkmoondirge 2012-05-06 02:03 am (UTC)(link)
Color me intrigued as well, what could ol vic sage have done that was so....evil?
sherkahn: (Default)

[personal profile] sherkahn 2012-05-06 09:22 am (UTC)(link)
I think perhaps he is Alexander the Great, based on his previous tutors.
simiansyndicate: (Default)

[personal profile] simiansyndicate 2012-05-06 02:05 am (UTC)(link)
Y'know, I wanted Vic Sage back. He was my Question.

This...this ain't him. Like much of the DCnU, I'm seeing things that either irritate me, offend me, or make me not give a single damn. This one has a touch of the first, and a heaping buttload of the third.


Back to watching JLU...
q99: (Default)

[personal profile] q99 2012-05-06 03:54 am (UTC)(link)
-Y'know, I wanted Vic Sage back. He was my Question.

This...this ain't him. Like much of the DCnU, I'm seeing things that either irritate me, offend me, or make me not give a single damn. This one has a touch of the first, and a heaping buttload of the third.-

That's one of the things- when someone is attached to a character, they're attached to that character, not the name or what have you.

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turtlefu: (Default)

[personal profile] turtlefu 2012-05-06 02:34 am (UTC)(link)
I am literally crying right now. I mean, I actually have tears in my eyes because of them getting rid of Renee.

They have taken Renee away. They have re-replaced her with Charlie, but he's not even Charlie since his circumstances are now completely different. This is now complete proof that DC is just full of regressive, immature fanboys who care more about the Silver Age than good stories, and who claim they care about diversity but are perfectly happy to shelve their minority characters when there is a "better" white, male version available.

I have such a strong personal connection to Renee. She is my favorite character of all time, and she is one of those characters in fiction that have seriously inspired me in the my real life. To just get rid of her? I can't in good conciounce support anything DC ever again. It's too bad, but I have now sworn off all DC.

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okkult3000: (Default)

[personal profile] okkult3000 2012-05-06 03:29 am (UTC)(link)
Added to the ledger of DCnU's many sins: giving the Phantom Stranger a definitive origin.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-05-06 07:00 am (UTC)(link)
That struck me as odd too. He's not a Stranger, he's the Phantom Guy We Know About, which isn't nearly as cool sounding.

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[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-05-06 03:34 am (UTC)(link)
I think I'm fine with this take on The Question--I mean, with the exception of Greg Rucka, pretty much every writer who's taken him creates their own take on him, from Objectivist hero to Zen investigator to urban shaman. Hell, he doesn't even have to be a villain at this point--since his identity has been wiped away, he wouldn't remember what took him to that direction and could go somewhere different.
riddler13: (Default)

[personal profile] riddler13 2012-05-07 04:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, yes, but only 4 authors worked with Vic: Ditko, O'Neill, Rucka and... I'm forgetting someone else.

Point is, Rucka kind of continued O'Neill's work, so you have something to work upon. And even somethings from Ditko are kept in O'Neill's work (although kingrockwell wouldn't surely agree with me. I have a theory that O'Neill's Vic is the same as Ditko's, only some 3 or 4 years afterwards).

Still, as much as I love Vic, I don't want his return to mean the end of Renée. There could be 2 Questions, why not?
dr_archeville: Doctor Arkeville (Default)

[personal profile] dr_archeville 2012-05-06 03:34 am (UTC)(link)
... wasn't Judas a redhead?

(Eh, so was Thor.)

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[personal profile] bulletsandbraclets 2012-05-06 04:12 am (UTC)(link)
To tell the truth, I have to to wrap my head around this new origin before I can give an opinion.
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)

[personal profile] kenn_el 2012-05-06 04:21 am (UTC)(link)
I scanned these earlier today at, but I wasn't as certain as you as to who The Question was supposed to be. I think he WILL be Vic Sage, but that he might have been some other figure prior to the de-facing, but that's just my take. Poor Pandora, though. She didn't actively 'sin', and was not deserving of being a part of the 'Trinity'. Not too happy with The Stranger's identity either. I like a man of mystery.
louisadkins: Anthro-Cat - Bust Shot (Serious)

[personal profile] louisadkins 2012-05-06 11:07 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, if we're counting unintended consequences here I think Albert Einstein or Robert Oppenheimer should have been candidates.
glprime: (Default)

[personal profile] glprime 2012-05-06 04:21 am (UTC)(link)
And once again, I'm flipping off the DCnU continuity. I reject your reality and substitute my own!
majingojira: (I Reject Your Reality)

[personal profile] majingojira 2012-05-07 03:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Amen to that!

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bewareofgeek: (Crazy)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2012-05-06 04:28 am (UTC)(link)
I doubt he's Vic Sage in any meaningful sense.

"Rise to power" and "Fear my name" suggests a conqueror or dictator of some sort. And a proud one, at that.

Red hair suggest European, possibly Celtic or Germanic.

Actually, a candidate comes to mind. A stupid one, but one that fits the pattern. Could he be Loki?
bewareofgeek: (Default)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2012-05-06 04:47 am (UTC)(link)
Second possibility. Cain, who was traditionally a redhead.

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[personal profile] blueprintstyles 2012-05-06 04:44 am (UTC)(link)
Vic sage had red in JLU, Personally i'm interested in what he did to be branded evil considering it's the darkest of the the dark ages it doesn't take much to be considered evil.
kraesil: (mouse)

[personal profile] kraesil 2012-05-06 05:10 am (UTC)(link)
Not so intrigued as hoping DC doesn't screw this up.

razsolo: (Default)

[personal profile] razsolo 2012-05-06 07:45 am (UTC)(link)
This looks to be very nicely drawn, but put me in the camp of preferring Phantom Stranger to not have a definitive origin...there are some characters (the Time Trapper from DC & the Celestials from Marvel also spring to mind) who I think work infinitely better if their aura of mystery is actively fostered.

As far as the Question thing goes....I only really know Vic Sage from the cartoon and from some stuff that has been posted here, so I don't have THAT much emotional investment in him, but this seems like something that may be a cool throwaway concept but I'm not sure if it's something that should be linked to this specific character?
leikomgwtfbbq: (NERD RAGE)

whiny fangirl raeg about stuff only I care about XP

[personal profile] leikomgwtfbbq 2012-05-06 08:27 am (UTC)(link)
dkfdaslfhkdskfsdhkal no. D:< DC wtf r u doin

The Phantom Stranger doesn't have an origin, and doesn't need one! (That is, in fact, why he had four of them back in the day--because no one really cared, but it was fun to think about. Also, for the record, he was never implied to be Judas--he was implied to be the Wandering Jew, a guy who randomly volunteered to whip Jesus on his way to the cross out of frustration for losing his own family.) His past never figures into his character. He's a guy who's much more focused on the present and the future, and I really liked that about him. It was pretty unique.

Of all the things the DCnU's done, this is the thing that really annoys me most. (Well, that and zapping Oracle. I'm still pissed about that, too.)

The Phantom Stranger may well be my favorite character, not just in comics, but possibly in fiction as a whole, because he's a very unique dude. Sure, his role as "mentor" seems cliche, but his character's a unique one among the stereotypical mentor characters, and among "occult detective"-type characters as well. That's the way he works best, and that's why I like him. He's mysterious and cryptic and vanishes often, but he's friendly and helpful in his own way, and seems to have an eye always on the future, and on helping his "friends" in the DCU achieve their full potential, rather than doing it for them. He doesn't do it because he gets something out of it. He just does it to do it. He just wants things to be better, that's all, and I really like that.

I don't like the idea of him having a concrete past, or of that past implying his mission/actions for the future (presumably atonement). Why take one of the most unique characters in at least the DCU and make him... cliche? I know, I know, characters who are good just for the sake of being good are "boring," but I always thought the Stranger really pulled that off better than anyone else, and you could tell a lot of intriguing stories with the Phantom Stranger being just the way he is.

Bleargh. Now I'm glad I didn't go to the comic shop for my birthday.

...I think I'm the only one who really cares about all this, hahahaha XD I'm a bit too invested in old P.S., I think.
icon_uk: (Default)

Re: whiny fangirl raeg about stuff only I care about XP

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-05-06 10:31 am (UTC)(link)
Two reasons you shouldn't worry about a post like that;

1) Remember the s_d motto; "It's NEVER just you", and
2) We all have our favourite characters we get deeply invested in (in our eyes) or unreasonably obsessed with (in others eyes) and are sensitive to the handling of.
drexer: (Default)

This again...

[personal profile] drexer 2012-05-06 08:28 am (UTC)(link)
Oh goody, more Judeo-Christian mithology which won't be properly explained or evaluated because this is written for christians by christians. It annoyed me with the end of Blackest Night and it annoys me now.

Also, am I the only one peeved by the 'You are an evil girl' line?
tammy_moore: (Default)

Re: This again...

[personal profile] tammy_moore 2012-05-06 09:27 am (UTC)(link)
It bugged me too. Plus, Pandora isn't evil, she was a: curious and b: doing what the gods created her to do. It is a bit harsh to call her evil enough to deserve an eternity of punishment.

Especially since, isn't the Wizard affiliated with the Graeco-Roman gods?

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[personal profile] jlbarnett 2012-05-06 11:54 am (UTC)(link)
I suggest the Question is John Galt.

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[personal profile] jlbarnett 2012-05-06 01:05 pm (UTC)(link)
In Morrison's Final Crisis they tied the Question to the Global Peace Agency of OMAC. I wonder if this might end up doing something similar because this is to big a role for a guy who's basically just been a detective

[personal profile] md84 2012-05-06 02:09 pm (UTC)(link)
It's too bad DC already made Vandal Savage the Biblical Cain, since it would make a little more sense for the Phantom Stranger to actually be Cain -- the Mark of Cain grants the twofer of isolation from humanity and invincibility in the form of "anyone who messes with you gets on God's bad side".
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-05-06 09:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Since the House of Mystery's Cain had that title long before Vandal Savage, they are practically forming a QUEUE to be him...

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[personal profile] donnblake 2012-05-06 03:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Someone mentioned it upthread, but I'm going to chime in with agreement- the Question isn't supposed to be anyone we recognize, his identity is removed as part of his punishment and everyone forgets his name.

I like the Question as the borderline mad (decide for yourself which side of the border) conspiracy theorist he was in JLU, but on the other hand, I'm not crazy about his origins as a Randian Superman, so mark me down as interested to see how this depiction turns out.

Tying him to a mystical origin might go some ways towards explaining why he was running around as an urban shaman in Superman recently. Wasn't that post-reboot?
bewareofgeek: (Crazy)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2012-05-06 05:26 pm (UTC)(link)
So he's gone from being Rorshach to Ozymandias? ;)

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[identity profile] 2012-05-06 09:40 pm (UTC)(link)
"the man who in Judeo-Christian teachings betrayed Jesus for Thirty Pieces of Silver"

No, he did that in Christian teachings. He doesn't figure into Jewish teachings at all.

I know there are Christians who would like to claim that Jewish teachings are just the preamble to Christian teachings and that everything in their bible is foreshadowed in ours, but Judaism is a separate religion so when something isn't a part of both religions, it's offensive to tag it as though it is.

That said, add me to the group who think that giving the Phantom Stranger a concrete origin is a really bad idea.
venatosapiens: griffin vulture (Default)

[personal profile] venatosapiens 2012-05-07 06:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Motto to both. The "Judeo-Christian" term is something that has always made me uncomfortable as well.

Also, subtlety of any kind seems to have died in the relaunch. Making The Question into a historical/magical figure? Making the Phantom Stranger Judas? It's astonishing how uninteresting that makes them.
crabby_lioness: (Default)

[personal profile] crabby_lioness 2012-05-08 08:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm going to stick with Alan Moore's origin of the Stranger.


Nobody does it better.
Makes me feel sad for the rest.
Nobody does it half as good as you.
Baby, you're the best.

*ahem* Sorry.

It used to be said (by me if no one else) that DC had the more poetic stories and Marvel had the more realistic stories. And that was fine, because when DC was firing on all cylinders their stories sang with poetry. But now they're trying to out-realism Marvel and it's not working. They may be really grim and gritty, but they don't sing anymore.