Date: 2012-05-09 06:09 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
On the plus side, Alien Resurrection had two of the greatest actors of all time in it.

Ron Perlman and Brad Dourif for the win! ^^

Date: 2012-05-09 06:24 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Well, yes. I'm never one to complain about more Ron Perlman. And to be honest, I like Sigourney Weaver in most things she's in, even if she was visibly bored by the time she did AR.

But seriously, the film is so much garbage. It blatantly ignores the ground rules laid down by the Alien's inherited traits from it's host creature - and as such, where the fuck does the Queen Alien getting a giant womb come from, let alone the idiotic Newborn thing? It also treats the regular drones like not-so-dangerous mooks - which, granted, Cameron in Aliens did a little, but they were visibly still dangerous and pretty damn scary when in swarm-mode. I just think AR and the AvP movies really, really damaged the Alien franchise. Predator got a leg up again thanks to the pretty good Predators, but I'm really, really hoping Prometheus is the shit, and I couldn't give a flying fuck if it doesn't make Avengers money.

Date: 2012-05-09 06:39 pm (UTC)
dr_archeville: Doctor Arkeville (Default)
From: [personal profile] dr_archeville
It's been years since I've seen it, but didn't the Head Scientist Dude make the Queen Alien w/ Womb (tinkering with it after they extracted it from the successfully cloned Ripley) because... because he thought it'd be (somehow) better with more lady-parts?

Date: 2012-05-09 07:27 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I think, as suggested below, that the attempts to clone Ripley mean that traits have crossed between her and the Alien Queen. The Queen gets the reproductive system of a human - which is really, bizarrely inefficient compared to the egg>>facehugger>>Alien system, and Ripley gains all the Alien bennies. The last remaining scientist who gets his skull bitten open by the Newborn after it's born confirms this when he bellows about the womb being Ripley's 'gift' to the Queen.

Date: 2012-05-09 06:57 pm (UTC)
khamelea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] khamelea
I always understood the Queen's womb as coming from the same place Ripley's acid blood and genetic memory came from: the two clones sort of bleeding into each other, and that was the first pair the scientists managed to clone that weren't too freakishly unmelded to be viable.

As for the Newborn, I have no freaking idea. Was Ripley supposed to be pregnant before dying, or did one of the scientists have sex with the cloned Queen, or what?

Date: 2012-05-09 07:11 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
The thing is, it was never fully explained properly - presumably because, you know, movie!genetics or whatever, but I suppose the Newborn was like, meant to be the offspring of the new type of Queen deviated from the clone Ripley. As in, Ripley gets strength, agility, etc - the Queen gets a womb.

But it just never felt correctly explained as to why we still had drones - as in Aliens born from people the facehuggers impregnated, thus needing eggs (like Alien, Aliens, and even Alien 3 with the dog/ox Alien), and yet the nature of the new Queen meaning it produced children like a human woman does - not eggs. I know the crew Winona Ryder and Ron Perlman are a part of bring in test subjects, but this doesn't explain how we do have the distinct kinds of Alien, despite the changed Queen Alien being really important to the story.

So yeah - the Newborn would basically be the 'new' Alien model that the changed Queen from Clone!Ripley would produce, if it didn't cut it's mother's face off after birth. But.. Yeah. Exactly where the Queen gets the necessary material to make said baby from.. Not sure. Especially since the usual process does require a host/donor. Maybe it's asexual.

Date: 2012-05-09 06:58 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
It blatantly ignores the ground rules laid down by the Alien's inherited traits from it's host creature

I do recall quadruped Aliens emerging from the remains of a dog, so that seemed to fit the pattern.

Couldn't agree more about the idea of a womb-bearing Alien Queen being a chronically crappy idea.

Date: 2012-05-09 07:24 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Yep - Alien 3 does have the 'Dog' Alien - although it's an Ox in the director's cut, I believe, so it's implied that the Alien is meant to take on traits from the thing it gestates in. Even the godawful AVP2 follows that rule with the Predator-Alien.

But.. Yeah. I think Aliens probably distanced the creatures from Giger's original design a little too much anyway, but I think they still had the right flavour and sexual creepiness to them as intended; Alien 3 turns it into a character dynamic, almost, but the choices in Alien Resurrection are really, really bizarre.

Date: 2012-05-09 09:19 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Ox? Really? I know that was planned for the proposed cartoon series, along with, of all things, a King Alien, but never knew it appeared in a movie.

Date: 2012-05-09 09:30 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Yeah, I'm pretty certain it's only in the normal cut of the film that the facehugger attaches to a dog - In the original version, which is present on the DVD/Blurays these days, it was an ox. From the look of things, the switch to the dog worked a little better, but both contribute quite nicely to the notion of the Alien taking traits from it's host.

Date: 2012-05-10 12:50 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
And again, the Ox is canonically part of the Workprint/Assembly edition - which is closer to what Fincher intended. Again, I think the dog works slightly better than the Ox, and there are a handful of bits in the Assembly cut that I don't think work - like the embryonic Queen forcing it's way into Ripley after hatching; That said, the lack of this sequence in the final film causes more problems with the facehugger that actually impregnates Ripley.

So.. Yeah. Alien 3 does have some problems. Still better than Resurrection.

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