blackruzsa: (Default)
[personal profile] blackruzsa posting in [community profile] scans_daily
EDIT: A lot of people are saying Gutters sucks and the humor is low. I think we've covered that. So... let's just sit back and enjoy this page, or you know, skip the post entirely. Either one would be nice. Even criticizing the page itself would be nice. But not the entire webcomic, or the writer, because Sohmer didn't write this page, and if Gutters is a terribad webcomic, then skip it.

Devolving into debates only semi-related to the comic and not related to the subject matter at all can get tiring.

With that:

Gutters, with things I did not know about clichés used in comics. Mark Waid clichés. But clichés nonetheless.

Of course, I don't frequent Times Square, so...

Date: 2012-08-09 08:02 pm (UTC)
arbre_rieur: (Default)
From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur
Wait, huh? You mean, for once, Gutters is actually making an astute observation in a clever way, not just some cheap, obvious "joke?" How did...

*Scrolls down, sees that the strip was guest-written*

Oh. Figures.

Date: 2012-08-09 08:11 pm (UTC)
arbre_rieur: (Default)
From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur
Also, I'm surprised that Waid would call out Geoff Johns like that, as the two are supposed to be good friends.

Date: 2012-08-09 08:43 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
That depends on whether you'd call this 'clever'. Stating the problems that you think are prevalent in modern comics by just displaying them on the page doesn't strike me as particularly clever, because it's not going to do anything about the problem.

Compare and contrast, again, with Waid's own work on Daredevil, which people have embraced because it's finally a distinct change from the usual misery-train Matt Murdock is forced to ride. One's effective. The other isn't.

Date: 2012-08-10 05:54 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
I'm not crazy about this strip, but I'm kind of confused by what seems to be your stance- is it not worth it to articulate what you see as problems with a medium? I mean, people post a lot of criticisms here on Scans Daily, and it would be pretty odd if the response to all of them was, "Shouldn't you be writing comics instead of just complaining about them?" wouldn't it?

Date: 2012-08-10 10:08 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
There's a difference. I imagine that the vast majority of posters here on S_D have no involvement in the industry beyond reading the books, but when someone like Waid puts up some generic criticism, it just doesn't feel right, to me. It's like if, instead of creating a set of strong female characters to make up for the general lack of them in the industry, Greg Rucka just sat there and put out pages like this mocking what's there. I just think that if you are in a position to do something about the problem you perceive, DO IT. As it is, this isn't accomplishing anything, whereas, again, Waid has distinctly changed Daredevil based on HIS perceived problems with how the character has bee presented, and people have responded to it in an overwhelmingly positive way. I just don't see this as a very valid method of articulation coming from someone who is in a very good position within the industry to try changing things. Especially Waid - who has made strides not only in character presentation and the like, but in comics availability through the digital medium, from what I've read.

Date: 2012-08-10 10:43 am (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
"It's like if, instead of creating a set of strong female characters to make up for the general lack of them in the industry, Greg Rucka just sat there and put out pages like this mocking what's there."

The problem with that example is the word "instead." By your own admission, Waid is already writing stories that address the problems he sees, so why can't he do both? It's not "instead," it's "and." It's like doing these four panels is going to prevent him from continuing to do what he does in DAREDEVIL.

Date: 2012-08-10 10:50 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I just think this is puerile and a waste of his time. That's all. He's doing a far better job of getting change in his actual comics than a really rather rubbish four panel piece of crap that isn't really going to change anything.

Date: 2012-08-10 10:57 am (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
If even one comics professional reads this and realizes, hey, the Jumbotron doesn't have speakers so it makes no sense for villains to make pronouncements from it, then it's done it's job, no?

Date: 2012-08-10 12:31 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
If the person who was making the pronouncements was a real super-villain, s/he'd have a flying death screen with speakers hovering over the city anyway.

Date: 2012-08-18 04:51 pm (UTC)
darrylayo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darrylayo
Do you even listen to yourself sometimes.

Date: 2012-08-18 05:36 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
No, because apparently I have you to hang on my every word like a bad scab when it comes to stuff I said over a week ago. Get a life.

Date: 2012-08-18 05:58 pm (UTC)
darrylayo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darrylayo
You're an idiot.

Date: 2012-08-18 06:05 pm (UTC)
darrylayo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darrylayo
Furthermore apart from being an idiot, you're a coward too. "I said that over a week ago," listen you gutless, intolerable dork: if you had even a flimsy shred of self respect, you'd stand up for what you said YEARS ago. Now I don't hang out on scans daily every day so if I amble along and see something that I find foolish to the point of being wrongheaded, I'm gonna call it that, regardless of whether the speaker (played in this case by you) feels its oh, so long ago.

Listen up, bucky: the reason your nonsense is intolerable is not that you didnt like a particular comic. It's that you think only YOU have the intellectual or moral authorization to criticize things. "oh I don't like this, Waid shouldn't waste time doing this stuff," you sound like a hypocrite AND a dirtbag.

So you want to talk about getting a life? You're the person who spent the time to troll a post about a comic. Now you're all mad and sad and crabby because we see through you.

You're immature, intellectually bankrupt and most importantly, an unforgivable shit-talker.

Date: 2012-08-18 06:11 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Have fun with that warning/ban/whatever, now.

Date: 2012-08-18 06:20 pm (UTC)
darrylayo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darrylayo
Cool, so you trolled the thread, cried when I said "do you even listen to yourself."

Then you told on me and ran crying to the moderator?

Gutless, spineless coward.

Date: 2012-08-18 06:24 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Well, you know, next time, pay attention to the rules. I'd have been fine with you critiquing what I said and you know, taking part in a discussion before you brought out the insults. For a person calling me the troll, you sure do a fine line in bullying yourself.

Mod Note

Date: 2012-08-18 06:43 pm (UTC)
salinea: Deadpool has a fucking horned hat on and is ready to kick gum and chew ass. Errr, moderate s_d. (mod hat)
From: [personal profile] salinea
This thread is frozen pending Mod reviewing.

Mod Note: Banned

Date: 2012-08-19 04:37 pm (UTC)
aeka: (Jason Todd [mod hood])
From: [personal profile] aeka
[personal profile] darrylayo, the rules clearly and explicitly state that bullying and personal attacks are not permitted on the community. The fact that you felt it was an appropriate response to personally insult [personal profile] mrstatham for a criticism he made and continued to bully him even after being called out on the fact that it's a serious violation of our rules is frankly unacceptable and uncalled for. Seeing as you've made it perfectly clear you have no intention of adhereing to our anti-bullying policy, we have absolutely no reason to keep you on board. You have now been banned from scans_daily.


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