[personal profile] propagandor posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Journey into Mystery #645


The remnant of the previous Loki appears before kid Loki, telling him Mephisto has seized the Crown of Fear. With it he will unite hell and plunge the universe into an age of darkness. There is only one way to stop him.
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If kid Loki sacrifices himself the crown will vanish and the adult Loki will take his place. Journey into Mystery was all a scheme. Loki felt the world wouldn't let him change so he set up the kid to earn everyones trust so Loki can eventually replace the child and live a life free from his past. Old loki gives the kid three conversations before it happens they are touching but page limits.

At last kid Loki stands again before his past self
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Beautiful, touching and sad.

I'm cancelling my preorder of Young Avengers though, I can't read old Loki run around in young Loki's skin

Date: 2012-10-24 07:24 pm (UTC)
darth_cloudo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darth_cloudo
I just read the issue. I am so, so sad.

I was expecting a sad ending but...not like this.

Tragedy in thirty one parts indeed.
Ugh. :(

Although is that foreshadowing with the "it's beyond any of OUR power"? Maybe? Hopefully? No?

Okay. :[
Edited Date: 2012-10-24 07:29 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-24 07:28 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: (ask the questions)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
I'm cancelling my preorder of Young Avengers though, I can't read old Loki run around in young Loki's skin

it might not be that.... Adult Loki might try to be Kid Loki... or there might actually be a part of Kid Loki still alive in him....

though one thing i did notice though, did the crows change places? meaning instead of being a representation of the part of Adult loki in kid loki's mind did he become kid loki's portion in adult loki's mind?

because if he killed the bird, then shouldn't that mean the part of Adult Loki is gone?

Date: 2012-10-24 07:33 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (Default)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
True, but he ate part of it, to me that means he took part of it into himself. That can be read in multiple ways, but I don't think Adult Loki took over Kid Loki entirely. Perhaps, not even at all.

Date: 2012-10-24 08:53 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
Wasn't there something about Ikol being in Kid Loki’s head all the time? So he was part of him after all? So isn’t this like someone with split personalities merging in a single one?

Date: 2012-10-26 01:00 am (UTC)
da_reap: (Default)
From: [personal profile] da_reap
The magpie's gone. Kid Loki ate it, thus overwriting himself with Adult Loki. Kid Loki is vanished entirely, and there's no thread of him able to come back; the setup was deliberately made to keep from having anything to hold out hope for.

He's gone, and he'll remain gone. And I can only wish that wasn't so.

Date: 2012-10-26 05:40 pm (UTC)
darth_cloudo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darth_cloudo
Actually, good news, it seems! On Kieron Gillen's tumblr, he's said that the end of YA's first arc coincides with the end of JiM, which would mean that the kid Loki in the first arc at least is the one we know.

Date: 2012-10-26 06:00 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
me thinks Kid Loki may have some tricks up his sleeve. either he made the Young Avengers to find a way to save himself, OR he made them in order to STOP his older self

Date: 2012-10-26 06:29 pm (UTC)
darth_cloudo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darth_cloudo
That would be great. How would he know his older self was plotting against him, though?

On further reflection, I may have misinterpreted the tweet: https://twitter.com/kierongillen/status/261756500022800384
I thought that he meant in-universe, YA's first arc ended with JiM, but it seems like he means the release dates of the comics. Pooey. :(

Date: 2012-10-26 06:22 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
wow, really? I... do not know what to think of it. It sounds uncannily cruel.

Date: 2012-10-26 06:33 pm (UTC)
darth_cloudo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darth_cloudo
I just realized that I might have misinterpreted his tweet. Here's the whole twitter conversation: https://twitter.com/kierongillen/status/261756500022800384

I thought KG was saying that in the MCU, YA's first arc ended with JiM, but it seems like he was referring to the release dates of the comics. Sorry about that.

; _;

Date: 2012-10-26 06:36 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
Ah yes.

That sounds less weird.

Date: 2012-10-24 07:31 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (Default)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
Yeah, you I think you're jumping to conclusions there, since kid Loki defies Loki's plans off hostile take over, it's still Kid Loki, but it's now got some more old Loki flavorings. Notice that he did not put on the crown and cackle evilly. There's a lot of ways to read it, but I really don't think "Old Loki is now using Kid Loki as a meat puppet" fits.

Ya know, I wouldn't be surprised if Young Avengers first 12 issues weren't Kid Loki's suicide attempt to make sure the old him doesn't corrupt him completely.

Date: 2012-10-24 09:07 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
Oh, honey; it's worst than that. Kid Loki doesn't say that he wins because he survives in old Loki. He says he wins because just by doing what he's doing Old Loki does doom himself to being what he has always been. That's why Old Loki loses. That's the bitterest of victory for Kid Loki.


(Though I wouldn't be surprised if Young Avengers did indeed bring about some subtlety to it).

Date: 2012-10-24 09:21 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (I Reject Your Reality)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
Honestly, with Loki, nothing is cut and dried as far as I'm concerned.

Date: 2012-10-24 09:24 pm (UTC)
salinea: kid!Loki, smiling adorably (*g*)
From: [personal profile] salinea
True.

Date: 2012-10-24 07:46 pm (UTC)
mesmiranda: (bloody hell)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
My wallet thanks you, Marvel! Great decision!

Date: 2012-10-24 08:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
I thought this was a great ending to Gillen's Journey into Mystery

The other Leah growing up to become Hela was really cool

Date: 2012-10-24 08:30 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
So Mini!Loki's love interest grew up to be his daughter? How Olympian.

Date: 2012-10-24 10:11 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jmacq1
In a manner of speaking. I found it a very interesting and poetic take on the myth. Loki is her "father" in the sense that he technically created her, but she's not the fruit of his loins or anything like that. Gillen rather elegantly solved the long-standing Marvel riddle of how Hela seemed to be older and more powerful than her purported father while still lending some truth to the ancient mythology.

Date: 2012-10-26 05:59 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
oh is that what he did? because i though kid loki had even asked Hela about that part of the myth...

Date: 2012-10-24 08:55 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
The other Leah growing up to become Hela was really cool
lad to see my guess validated ^^

Date: 2012-10-24 08:54 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: Celestial thumbs up! (thumbsup)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
I really love the art here. Old Loki feels very numinous.

Date: 2012-10-24 09:27 pm (UTC)
trobadora: (Default)
From: [personal profile] trobadora
Wow, this has just made Young Avengers a million times more interesting.

Date: 2012-10-24 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jmacq1
If Kid Loki survived, Mephisto's crown wouldn't have disappeared. I'm thinking the more hopeful interpretations are in the "denial" stage of mourning.

Kid Loki's dead. I have no interest in reading Adult Loki in a Kid Loki skinsuit, and given that Kid Loki was potentially my only real reason for looking at Young Avengers, Marvel's lost that potential sale.

It's not really Gillen's fault though. He told an excellent story, but ultimately status quo is a stronger god than anything in the Marvel Universe. Loki will probably be back to his usual adult self in appearance as well as deed right around the time Thor 2 hits theaters, at the very latest.

Date: 2012-10-24 09:57 pm (UTC)
trobadora: (Default)
From: [personal profile] trobadora
I liked kid!Loki and would have liked to keep him a little longer. But he was always going to be temporary.I suppose I'm the only one who liked him at least in part because he was temporary ...

(Kid!Loki was my only reason for being interested in Young Avengers, too. But it was a very tentative reason, as the whole team-up just sounded ... not very interesting to me. With this change, it becomes a whole different story to me, and one that holds much more appeal as a story.)

Date: 2012-10-24 10:09 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jmacq1
I feel like that story was basically already told in Mighty Avengers.

Date: 2012-10-26 05:58 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
it's still Kid Loki in at least the first YA arc.

Date: 2012-10-26 06:17 pm (UTC)
trobadora: (Default)
From: [personal profile] trobadora
Really? How weird. I'm not sure I'm actually interested in going back ...

Date: 2012-10-24 11:36 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] silicondream
Kid Loki's dead.


And in a particularly cruel way, given that he could easily have ended up dead and reunited with Leah/Hela, but they explicitly shot that down.

I have no interest in reading Adult Loki in a Kid Loki skinsuit


I'm kind of wondering who does have interest in that. Surely most fans of the old Loki just want the old Loki back? Kid Loki was interesting because he actually had the personality of a child with a lot of potential for good in him, not because he just looked like that.

Date: 2012-10-25 03:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thegrommit.livejournal.com
Kid Loki's dead. I have no interest in reading Adult Loki in a Kid Loki skinsuit, and given that Kid Loki was potentially my only real reason for looking at Young Avengers, Marvel's lost that potential sale.

That's a fair point, though given the quality of Gillen's work on JiM, I'd say it's a bit premature to to assume the book won't be worth reading.

Date: 2012-10-25 10:55 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jmacq1
I'm not making any sort of judgment as to the quality of the story. There are simply no characters in the book that particularly interest me now, ergo...no real reason to read it.

Date: 2012-10-26 01:23 am (UTC)
da_reap: (Default)
From: [personal profile] da_reap
This. All of this, always this. He's gone, and I wish he wasn't, but for the sake of the precious Status Quo he has to be- and damned if I'm paying for Lokistuff from now on. He was what the Thor franchise had been sorely needing, but they think he's done enough to hit the reset button yet again.

It's the core issue I have with comic books. The whole point is to get us to CARE about the characters so we'll buy their stories, but the industry-standard is to then demonstrate all the reasons why we shouldn't have bothered! If it isn't ridiculous mischaracterizations, it's the meaningless death of the ones we came to read about in the first place.

With a few rare exceptions, it feels like an exercise in futility, where you wind up grateful that a character you loved was at least given a graceful pointless send-off.

Date: 2012-10-24 09:53 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
This might actually be the first instance I can remember of Old Loki not looking malevolent. He looks downright sincere here, usually I'd expect him to be sporting a villainous smirk or something.
I get the feeling this is going to go down as a classic run.
Edited Date: 2012-10-24 09:58 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-24 10:22 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
Don't forget Wiccan has a connection to Mephisto.

Date: 2012-10-24 10:41 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
Is Speed in the new series too? He should be another errant pie slice as well.

Date: 2012-10-24 10:52 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
Not that we know of.

Date: 2012-10-26 05:56 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
why he ISN'T there is explained. so there might be a reason

Date: 2012-10-26 06:06 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
Yeah.

Date: 2012-10-24 10:22 pm (UTC)
seisachtheia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] seisachtheia
I cannot even process this. Though the art was very pretty.

Date: 2012-10-24 11:11 pm (UTC)
yvonmukluk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yvonmukluk
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

NOT L'IL LOKI!

He'll...he'll be back, right? They wouldn't create him to throw him to oblivion and never use him again...right?

Date: 2012-10-26 01:25 am (UTC)
da_reap: (Default)
From: [personal profile] da_reap
HA, hahahahahahahahahaha, ha.

No, he's gone for keeps. Because that's what the Status Quo demands, and Adult Loki is what moviegoers will expect to see when they come into a shop wanting more of 'that one guy Tom Hiddleston plays.'

Date: 2012-10-26 05:55 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
i highly doubt it, KG is writing YA, Lil Loki may actually have a "get out of Jail free card"

Date: 2012-10-26 10:03 pm (UTC)
da_reap: (Default)
From: [personal profile] da_reap
It's nice to think about, but Kieron deliberately shut down any hope for having anything left for Young Loki to come back from. No 'author's saving throws', nothing for other writers to drag him back with, gone.

Short reason to think otherwise, the Young Avengers is KG's chance to test-run Skinsuit Loki. Given that it's Kieron, it would be safe to expect that short of editorial fiat the Liesmith won't give away the game until he's ready to sweep the whole board- but there's only room for one Loki in 616, and despite our preferences that's not a fight the new guy can win.

Date: 2012-10-27 02:54 am (UTC)
mesmiranda: (top hat)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
Ironically, Tom Hiddleston himself apparently loves Kid Loki and Gillen's run on JiM, and sent a letter to Gillen informing him of the fact.

Date: 2012-10-27 04:25 am (UTC)
da_reap: (Default)
From: [personal profile] da_reap
That IS ironic. And soothes my bitterness against him for being such a dang great actor; thanks! It's good to know he appreciates well-written comics.

Date: 2012-10-24 11:36 pm (UTC)
turtlefu: (Default)
From: [personal profile] turtlefu
Isn't Gillen writing Young Avengers? So can't that be seen as a logical extension of this story. The story is not done yet, folks. No need to cry!

Date: 2012-10-25 12:41 am (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
That is a very good point, I imagine Loki's identity could be a big part of Young Avengers.

Date: 2012-10-25 06:05 am (UTC)
zabilac: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zabilac
You forget that this is a universe where people can sell their marriage to the Devil to save their dying aunt.
Edited Date: 2012-10-25 06:05 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-25 12:27 am (UTC)
crabby_lioness: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crabby_lioness
I've said it from the first:

Chaos-born Mage meets Chaos God. Anything can happen.

Now please, let that be enough!

Date: 2012-10-25 01:34 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
So even gods can't escape their past.

Date: 2012-10-25 01:55 am (UTC)
thanekos: Lora, crafting. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
Let's hope no one finds him out like Clint did.

Date: 2012-10-25 03:26 am (UTC)
thosefew: bored death (Default)
From: [personal profile] thosefew
Loki you are a terrible father to yourself.

Date: 2012-10-25 04:11 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] needagasmask
This story....all of my feels.

I've always loved Thor and JiM in general, but I was wary when I heard Loki was going to be the headliner. I've never been a fan of Loki, so I felt awful when I picked up this series. I've never been more glad to get past my reservations about this series. Every character was engaging, the storyline was something fresh, and every twist had me surprised. Even when I heard this was the likely outcome, I refused to believe it, because this incarnation is by far the best incarnation of JiM I've read in quite a long time.

Reading this issue, then going back to the beginning, the clues were always there. This has always been the endgame plan as far as Gillen was concerned. And while I'm mad Kid Loki died, I think I'd rather have it like this than let some other writer come in and mess up the masterful writing Gillen has done. This death story is on par, and maybe even overtakes the Death of Captain Marvel in my opinion, and that story has been one of my favorites for a very long time.

Good job, Gillen. I'd rather his story not end, but I can't think of a better way to do it.

And now, with this knowledge, whatever Loki's planning in Young Avengers seems that much more pertinent.

Date: 2012-10-25 02:38 pm (UTC)
darth_cloudo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darth_cloudo
I agree with all of this ^. To be honest, I expected a nice, low-key (forgive the pun) resolution. I was pretty sure that any stories about Loki after the end of Everything Burns might be enjoyable, but would still be dull compared to the JiM run. The ending was really painful well done and has a greater impact that if it had been done another way.

And who knows, maybe things aren't as clear as we think. Maybe it's not really the end. Maybe good things will happen in Young Avengers. Maybe?

Date: 2012-10-26 05:54 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
And who knows, maybe things aren't as clear as we think. Maybe it's not really the end. Maybe good things will happen in Young Avengers. Maybe?

the fact that KG is writing that, i have no doubt that Lil Loki still has a few tricks up his sleeve. :D

Date: 2012-10-26 06:19 pm (UTC)
darth_cloudo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darth_cloudo
I certainly hope so! I have a feeling YA is going to be good. But until it comes out, I shall sit in tortured suspense.

Date: 2012-10-25 03:40 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
Reminds me of the Doctor Who episodes "Human Nature" and "Family of Blood". "John Smith" so desperately wants to stay human, and is horrified by the prospect of dying and becoming the kind of man who didn't think he could ever fall in love.

Kid!Loki has it even worse. At least the Doctor could pin some of the blame on the Family of Blood for forcing his hand. Here, Kid!Loki has no one to blame but his own past self.

I just hope Loki remembers what it was like being a hero. Maybe that will be enough to change him for real.

Date: 2012-10-26 03:12 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
I just hope Loki remembers what it was like being a hero. Maybe that will be enough to change him for real.

this is what i am thinking... imean the notes in "young Avengers" make me think there is still a part of him inside him.

Date: 2012-10-26 02:41 am (UTC)
blackruzsa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blackruzsa
I think I might cry
but this is amazing. Perfect. Less of a hyperbole than usual, this is really way too perfect. Terrible, wonderful, sad.

Date: 2012-10-26 03:11 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Sad (We'll meet again Tiger)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
here is a thought.... since Adult Loki essentially reclaimed kid Loki, then what changed, or what good was in Kid Loki is now in Loki and now HE has the potential to change.... right? RIGHT!?!?!

Date: 2012-10-26 03:48 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
Loki has always had that potential. But given the way he switched from "Damn me" to "Damn YOU all", he's already finding people to blame other than himself. Which was always one of old Loki's greatest flaws.

Date: 2012-10-26 06:08 pm (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
I wonder if he's damning the readers, as if this is somehow all our fault. :(

My thoughts, they are plenty and complex over this whole thing. But I am sad at the thought of Kid Loki going bad for real.

Date: 2012-10-27 04:30 am (UTC)
da_reap: (Default)
From: [personal profile] da_reap
Oh, if only.

But no, he didn't RECLAIM him. He OVERWROTE him. Like the kid said, that's how Loki lost- because he wouldn't change, and wiped out what changes had been made. There's not even Kid Loki's memories left, just Ikol's memories of how the young'un was.

Date: 2012-10-26 10:33 pm (UTC)
sslrranma: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sslrranma
I think its best we don't rule out that Kid Loki might have found a way to cheat fate. Remember, Kid Loki is still Loki.

Date: 2012-10-27 04:33 am (UTC)
da_reap: (Default)
From: [personal profile] da_reap
As grand as it would be to see Young Loki pull one on his older self, we can rule it out this time. Gillon made a point of showing how the kid just didn't have time or knowledge to do something about it- and really, the one person who can utterly blindside him is his older, more knowledgeable, more experienced self.

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