cyberghostface: (Spidey & MJ)
[personal profile] cyberghostface posting in [community profile] scans_daily

Dying in Dr. Octopus' body, Spidey confronts Ock (in his body) one last time. Peter is unable to transfer his consciousness back, but as his life flashes before his eyes Ock receives them as well via their mental link, with himself in place of Peter in them.

Ock (still in Spidey's body) tells Spidey he doesn't want this, and asks how he can do what Spidey does. Spidey (in Ock's body) tells him that he has to, because with great power...

But "Ock" is dead.

While this will probably last as long as Captain America's death did, I actually like the idea of a (reformed?) Ock as Spider-Man. I think there's a lot of potential with this idea and I'm definitely on board for Superior Spider-Man.

So I'm surprised to say this, but kudos to Slott. I'm looking forward to see where Ock!Spidey goes from here.

EDIT: There's an interesting write-up here.
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Date: 2012-12-26 05:08 am (UTC)
protogarrett: (Default)
From: [personal profile] protogarrett
I imagine the true Parker Memories will resurface and retain dominance so that Ock's personality no longer exists leaving only a true Peter Parker (of sorts).

Also, won't people notice "Peter" not acting like, well, Peter?

Date: 2012-12-26 06:42 am (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
But that would still mean the actual Peter Parker is dead.

Date: 2012-12-26 06:52 am (UTC)
walkingthroughforest: (Default)
From: [personal profile] walkingthroughforest
Excuse me for a minute, I think there's a baby I have to go kick somewhere.

Date: 2012-12-26 06:55 am (UTC)
randyripoff: (howard the duck)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
I'm wavering between "eh" or "Meh".

To me, this isn't much different from giving Peter six arms. I'm just not that into it.

Date: 2012-12-26 07:08 am (UTC)
seisachtheia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] seisachtheia
Hmm. Well, that's...weird. Maybe he and Loki can meet and have coffee and swap tips about being bad guys who took the place of good guys. Or something.

Date: 2012-12-26 07:09 am (UTC)
zabilac: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zabilac
I'm not really getting how Oc is suddenly reformed villain.
Edited Date: 2012-12-26 07:15 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-12-26 07:28 am (UTC)
lorriek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lorriek
Personally, I'd still consider Peter Parker to be dead in that scenario. I accept that souls and heavens and hells objectively exist in the MU (even if they're portrayed inconsistently), and unless Peter's talk with Uncle Ben was just a dream he had while his heart stopped, Peter's soul was coming back to heaven or wherever after this last battle. Whoever is driving his body, I can't see how it would really be Peter Parker unless his soul was in there.

We have to hope that M.J. does notice that Peter isn't Peter. Because otherwise... well, people can probably see the very bad direction this could go. I just hope Slott was sensible and doesn't go there.

I'm astonished this is the storyline they chose to commemorate 700 issues of ASM. Just, why?

Date: 2012-12-26 07:39 am (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
I think this is awful on multiple levels, including the thematic, somewhat nonsensical in the Marvel U (Surely Spidey's friends and allies would catch on eventually, in which case them not doing anything would be pretty damned immoral) as well as creepy and off-putting, and it genuinely makes me kind of angry, but I can get over it. I wasn't reading Spider-Man before this, and this certainly isn't going to have me rushing out to buy it, so I'm not that disappointed that this is a direction that I won't be onboard for and we all know that even if sales don't plummet and give Marvel a swift kick in the ass (which is my personal hope given that I'm sick of Marvel being so weirdly antagonistic and dismissive of what its fans want) things will still probably be back to normal in a year or so, and even if Dan Slott is genuinely dedicated to making this the status quo, which I somewhat doubt for the above reasons of it making no damn sense, it'll still end eventually. Because at some point a writer is going to get on the book and say "Hey, I want to write that actual fucking Spider-Man, not this weak shit." and change it back.
No, what really gets me about this is just who is it supposed to be for? Pretty much all the reaction I've seen online has been resoundingly negative, so clearly fans are not pleased with this. I don't think it'll appeal to the casual fan eithe someone familiar with Spidey from the movies and such, would probably pick this up and dismiss it as the kind of the stupid shit that makes comics inaccessible.
So who is this supposed to appeal to? It pisses off the hardcore fans, and the casual fans probably won't be interested, so I just don't see any point to this move. Is this just Dan Slott's vanity story or something?
Anyway, I might elaborate later, but right now I'm pretty tired so this is all I have to say:
This is dumb, offends me as a fan, and I'm not going to buy it.

Date: 2012-12-26 07:42 am (UTC)
sun_man: this is Dick Grayson (Default)
From: [personal profile] sun_man
I'm okay with this. but than I haven't given a shit about 616 Spidey since OMD so what do I know

Date: 2012-12-26 07:44 am (UTC)
weber_dubois22: (Assimilation)
From: [personal profile] weber_dubois22
I'm not even a regular reader of Amazing Spider-Man, let alone kept constant track of the arc that led us to this event, but this was some sad writing and artwork.

Moreover, the Miguel fan is kinda disappointed and glad that it isn't him who's the Superior Spider-Man. Now my wallet can't bludgeon me to death for adding another comic to my list.

I'm not really getting how Oc is suddenly reformed villain.

Neither am I, honestly. A 'shared connection' or not, I'm not sure how a montage of Peter's hardships would even have Doctor Octopus budge remotely on his hatred of Spider-Man in the least, let alone want to do "good" as the new Spider-Man. This is a narrative cop-out if I ever read one.
Edited Date: 2012-12-26 07:47 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-12-26 07:52 am (UTC)
biod: Cute Galactus (Default)
From: [personal profile] biod
Wasn't the official position that Doc Ock knew about suffering and life etc. but was so bitter and spiteful he just didn't give a shit and had gotten moreso as the years went on?
Because that Doc would laugh in the face of this little montage.

Date: 2012-12-26 08:19 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
Hahaha, someone post that scene where Doc Ock (as Peter) insults Mary Jane for being useless, making her blurt out she still loves him, and then they kiss.

Date: 2012-12-26 08:49 am (UTC)
biod: Spider-Man summons the spiders, because he is Spider-Man (Marvel Adventures Spider-Man)
From: [personal profile] biod

Date: 2012-12-26 09:51 am (UTC)
suzene: (Default)
From: [personal profile] suzene
That can't be what it sounds like. Was nothing learned from the Van Lente "spider-rape" debacle?

Date: 2012-12-26 10:07 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kd_the_movie
I think its pretty obvious that KAINE is going to be the one who knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isnt Peter, 'specially since Kaine is still indebted to Peter for saving his life and helping him have his new lease on life.

Date: 2012-12-26 10:08 am (UTC)
chrisdv: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chrisdv
So many things about this pissed me off when I read it a week ago (My LCS broke the street date for this week's comics for their customers with pull lists) but one thing (Out of many) that really pissed me off - Dan Slott seems to think the ASM readers can't remember the last time Ock was seen, trying to KILL 98% OF LIFE ON EARTH so he'd be remembered as history's greatest monster, all of 8 months ago.

Date: 2012-12-26 10:08 am (UTC)
chrisdv: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chrisdv
You'd think so, but clearly that isn't the case.

Date: 2012-12-26 10:23 am (UTC)
sir_razorback: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sir_razorback
Yeah, it's pretty much exactly what it sounds like. What gets me is how can 700 be so.. BAD.. while Avenging 15.1 is actually good? Different writers, I know, but essentially continuing the same story.

Ok, first off, things about 700 that REALLY ticked me off.

The scene described above
The Dues-Ex-Machina that Slott pulls out of Spidey's head (literally) to prevent a reverse-swap
Trying to sell that Pete is in Doc's body and vice/versa
Paste-Pot Pete(!) identifying brain-swapping tech at a glance!

Ok.. I have some pet theories, possible outs and predictions that I'm going to throw out there. Some of it is from #700 info, and some is from Avenging 15.1.

Have they actually swapped bodies?

My answer is *no*. A 'soul' isn't something you can download and remote transfer! It just dosen't work that way. What I think Ock did was over-think himself. He didn't NEED to overwrite Pete's brain patterns on his own. All he needed to do was over-write his on top of Pete's brain, and have chuckles with himself before his corpse checked out. That out-of-body experience could have just been the Pete-memories firing off and creating a sub-conscious refuge for him when his body was dying.

What if Marvel says *yes* to this, though? There's a possibility in a throw-away panel in 15.1. Sp/Ock is walking into his research lab and a couple scientists who know him greet him at the door. One of them is very excited about an invention he's working on, and I quote...

"Yeah, and I think I found a way to actually catch a ghost and hold it indefinitely!"

It could be a throwaway panel, or it could be Chris Yost (who has me completely sold in his writing of this book, BTW) introducing one possible hook to get the right man back in his brain.

Another page from earlier in the book, Sp/Ock is debating in his head how to dump Mary Jane because she's a distraction. Thinking about her causes a cascade effect of memories and you can smell the utter brain-lock as the images come up. There is a VERY sexy panel (respectfully sexy mind you, not skeevy-sexy) right in the middle of the montage and all he can say is "Dear god, that woman!" "Peter Parker is a fool."

So this raises the spectre of the real Peter's memories, as mentioned by Protogarrett, trying to claw their way back out to the surface. Of course by the time that happens, Sp/Ock will have had all sorts of time to utterly screw with his life. I think 2-3 years out we'll have Pete back in control of his own headspace, but they'll use the time in between to further drive a wedge between him and MJ. This really seems to be the Quesada/Slott directive, hammer that relationship from every angle possible. It might not be until the end of the decade before everything is finally sorted out, and this period will be known as the Black Years in Spider-man history.

Date: 2012-12-26 10:53 am (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
I don't recognise that woman with the glasses and bathrobe. Or any of these characters, really. And for once, that isn't Humberto Ramos' fault.

Seriously...ever since "One More Day", every giant advertised event story in Spider-Man's life just seems to have the net result of making him an unlikeable jerk in an entirely different way.

Date: 2012-12-26 10:57 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
He's just had Peter's entire heroic career and ethos crashloaded into his own mind, the sheer strength of Peter's morality and heroism, which Octavius has just experienced as first hand memories, are more powerful than Octavius' petty greed and vanity. He can't be the villain any more because he's seen a better way of doing things, and having seen it, must act on it, because it's what Peter would have done.

Date: 2012-12-26 10:59 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Except it's not just a visual montage, it's now things he remembers happening to him first hand, with all the emotional resonance that they had for Peter.

Date: 2012-12-26 11:04 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
s_d regular [personal profile] chocochuy asked me, due to them not being around for a couple of weeks, to post this when ASM 700 was posted, and so I will, but bear in mind this is not icon_uk's POV and I won't be replying to any comments left in reply to it.

Having just read Amazing Spiderman 700 and its subsequent epilogue, there is a taste of both sadness and powerlessness withing myself.

I remember it was around Winter 1998 when I had the chance to read the infamous "Web of Death" arc and I actually believed Spidey was going to die just when life was starting to smile. After months of wangst and senseless anger, Spidey was starting to recover his optimism and was gonna become a father just for some deadly virus to start devouring his health. I remember crying all those nights on December trying to know he was going to survive and, to my surprise, salvation came in the likes of Otto Octavius. Both men had been mortal enemies for years yet teamed up to restore themselves to their former glory in some particular "friendship". Tears of joy rolled around my cheek as Spidey was given a second chance and it was very sad to see Otto die at the end. Cliche as it may have been, that was one helluva story and one of me favorite Spidey/Doc Ock dynamics.

Which brings us to this recent world shattering event.

I am not gonna dwell on the details but I felt this issue was more a pastiche of rushed elements rather than the mother of all storylines. Yep, it was heartwarming to have Spidey makes peace with all his dead friends, I even cried with Uncle Ben, but it seemed as if such scene wasnt really part of the actual story. I somehow feel we were meant to have much more context on the death of our favorite wall-crawler and only got to see just 70 % of the intended story. It went too fast as Otto went from impact-webbing MJ and the others with prejudice to Spidey incarnated (although his faux memories looked nice, especially the one where he lifts all that machinery). The epilogue did a much better job at re-humanizing Otto and, by Crom, making him gain new respect to our late friendly neighbor. May Galactus have mercy now that the Superior Spiderman is here to stay, ready to crush us like flies(or to have crushes ON us as Icon_UK once mentioned).

I could rant some more but, to be honest, I was not that shocked with this story. Do not get me wrong, I am slightly mad with Dan Slott but I wouldnt go so low as sending him death threats as it was informed when this issue was leaked. It was a half-baked cop out and we will miss our good old Peter Parker as we did with Kal-El on 1992 (coincidence?)but there were some enjoyable moments. Only time will tell how will the Superior Spiderman will impact the Marvel Universe and it would be interesting to see how will this affect the Mephisto Deal considering Peter`s true soul is no longer inside his body. Anyhow, a minute of silence for a fallen hero.

Date: 2012-12-26 11:28 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
I don't know how that makes sense, seeing as how his response is to let Peter (in Ock's body) die and continue living as Peter, declaring he will be superior to Peter and be better than he ever was. That's not what Peter would've done at all.

Date: 2012-12-26 11:33 am (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
I love how the next-to-last page is sentiment both noble and petty.

Ock's internal monologue is probably going to be the best part of this, with all the interactions he's going to be having.

(I totally want something with Iron Man, just for something like..

" .. do you remember that time I brought you to your knees, begging? "

" .. what? "

" Oh, nothing.. ")

Date: 2012-12-26 12:12 pm (UTC)
arbre_rieur: (Default)
From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur
"Dan Slott seems to think the ASM readers can't remember the last time Ock was seen, trying to KILL 98% OF LIFE ON EARTH so he'd be remembered as history's greatest monster, all of 8 months ago."

What makes you say that? This is a Dr. Octopus transformed by first-hand experience of Peter's memories and morality.
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